Inside the Haversack/Wallet/Saddlebags

[kflach]

The place is Hell's Half Acre in Ft. Worth. The time is the mid-to-late 1870s. I'm not rich yet, but I'm playing Faro at all of the best Naughty places, trying to make it big. In the meantime, I still carry a cap and ball Remington (I can't afford a conversion yet). Fortunately for me, I've managed to obtain a '73 Winchester from a man who, well, let's just say he deserved it on account of his general mean disposition. Anyway...

What kind of smaller containers do I use to store my "stuff" in while it's inside my haversack/wallet/saddlebags?

Right now I'm using a period-incorrect divided plastic container to store my balls, patches, my capper and caps, Wonder Wads, 3-piece rifle cleaning rod, jags, brushes, Moosemilk squirt bottle, gun repair tools (like nipple wrench & screwdriver), and a few other items. It works perfectly for taking my Remmie to the range in 2009, but I'd like to upgrade my authenticity for NCOWS. I suspect PC in this case would be a bunch of smaller non-plastic containers.

From what I've gathered, people carried their balls in pouches (one of those Crown Royal bags???). What about the other items required to shoot Working Cowboy class?

River City John mentioned in one thread that he kept a tobacco pouch for cleaning patches. I suspect he wasn't talking about the Red Man pouches down at the 7-11. What kind of pouch would that be and where would I get one?

What about longer items like cleaning rods?

[Texas Lawdog]

Kflach, I think that RCJ was talking about Bull Durham tobacco pouches.

[James Hunt]

Wow, you carry quite a bit of stuff for your gun. I have seen little primary information on what "small" items they used to carry stuff. I usually shoot Rem NMA and a Win 66.

I carry my balls (always a little uncomfortable expressing it that way) either in a small bag made of pillow ticking with a bone button or another small bag made of linen. Both were excess material from another project.

The cartridges for the rifle I carry in a box, a facsimile of a .44 Henry box, throwing them in the wallet with the other stuff. A period powder flask is also contained in my wallet. Fired shells are thrown in there as I use them.

For gun accouterments I carry one of those PC three piece gun rods available from DGW that were associated with the Winchester. If needed I can use one section to shove down the bore of the pistol. I also carry a Colt tool from the period for a screw driver - although I have never needed it.

I also keep a small tin of tallow in the bag and have occasionally rubbed some on the face of the cylinder while reloading should I remember.

I throw in a piece of rag, usually pillow ticking or cotton that if needed I can cut off a small piece to clean the bore with or use for any one of another hundred uses including cutting some off for a pair of PC ear plugs.

I always carry a wooden canteen to keep myself hydrated, and if I should want to clean a gun just pour some water over a patch.

All of this stuff rattles around in my wallet with great efficiency.

The caps I carry in a period tin on a commercially available belt pouch attached to my belt, available during the period and documented in a period catalog (and made by my good friend Brass). I also confess to using a lube wad between powder and ball, something I can not document to the period with a primary source, but I use them and carry them in that little belt pouch.

Pretty basic, but nothing else is needed. Actually that is all the cleaning kit I have when I return to camp. So, I guess all you really need is a small bag to carry your, uuhhh..., balls in.

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[Dutch Limbach]

kflach,

One option might be brown paper lunch bags. You can find them at your local grocery, and they are pretty cheap.

Another option is cloth. I've made up some bags out of canvas and cotton duck that work well. Also, I've taken a piece of homespun (usually about 24 x 24"), and wrapped items in it. Also leather like buckskin makes mighty fine bags.

To carry my Moosemilk I've a couple of insulin bottles that a brother-in-law with diabetes gave me. Remove the medical caps and get some cork stoppers for them. I use Ballistol for my Moosemilk so I carry one bottle with it premixed, and the other bottle has full strength Ballistol in it. The bottles aren't very big, but I've yet to use a full bottle of Moosemilk at a shoot.

Hope this helps,
Dutch

[Delmonico]

Kflach, I think that RCJ was talking about Bull Durham tobacco pouches.

How to make them:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,24849.0.html

Size and material is up to you, I've made a lot of them to store gear in and some for some friends, they range from small ones to hold "makin's" for smokers to large ones for my clothes, dish towels and even a couple for dirty laundry.  I put wet dish rags and towels in a seperate one from my clothes.

[River City John]

Kflach, I think that RCJ was talking about Bull Durham tobacco pouches.

Right you are, Texas Lawdog.

kflach, if you like, send me a snail-mail address in a pm and I'll send you some extra odds 'n' ends of stuff as far as small containers and the like for your haversack. A cap tin w/period label, a spare Bull Durham-type pouch, etc.

(Although Mr. Hunt carries a period Colt combination tool, from experience I would encourage you to carry also a modern set of wooden-handled gunsmith screwdrivers that are properly ground so that they don't bugger up the soft screws used in a lot of repro arms nowadays. Cylinder 'n' Slide out of Fremont, NE is one supplier, and they're ground to especially fit screws in Colt, or Winchester,  or Marlin, etc).

Having a lot of small cloth bags for stuff . . .you can never have too many !

RCJ

[Yuma Kid]

Kflach,
I like the small leather pouches made of deer or elk skin that the Buckskinners use.  I carry the balls in one, another for wonder wads or other sealing material.  Then I put that along with power flask, small tools and such in a larger leather or cloth Possibles bag.  We have a annual Black Power/Modern Gun show where there are lots of Buckskinner traders.  but if no such gun shows are available, try www.Smoke-Fire.com they carry lots of period stuff.
Yuma

[Dutch Limbach]

kflach,

Here is a picture of what I use.


The cartridge boxes are 3 piece boxes I made from instructions that were in an article in the March/April 2000 issue of The Shootist. The brown paper bag is what my spent brass goes in. The small green bag at the bottom contains cloth patches and cleaning jags. I will put the cartridge boxes when full and put both them along with the green bag in the larger bag which I then put in my haversack or saddlebags.

Both of the cloth bags were made the same way Del's post described. For the larger bag I made a sign from some period fonts which I printed out and turned into a stencil. The ink has faded some over the years, but that is not an altogether bad thing.

NOTE: The Bank of Columbia, in Columbia, KY. was a bank that was robbed by the James-Younger Gang on April 29, 1872. My first professional wrestling match was in Columbia, KY. in January of 1975. At that time the town was still using the same bank, and there were still bullet holes in the walls from the robbery.

[Texas Lawdog]

I've got bank bags to put the small bags in and a pair of Saddle Bags to carry the Bank bags in.

[kflach]

Thanks for all the info. This looks like stuff I can put together while I sit and watch old movies.

It looks like I could use the same pattern to create my own Bank Bag. What kind of material was used for those bags - some kind of heavy cotton or wool-based canvas (I don't know squat about fabric)? Where would I find out what banks existed in Ft. Worth or Dallas at that time period?

Do I get extra points if I put a few simulated 'blood stains' on the bank bags? Come to think of it, Since I'd be using a real needle, the blood stains may not be just 'simulated.'

<grin>

PM sent to RCJ.

[Dutch Limbach]

Thanks for all the info. This looks like stuff I can put together while I sit and watch old movies.

It looks like I could use the same pattern to create my own Bank Bag. What kind of material was used for those bags - some kind of heavy cotton or wool-based canvas (I don't know squat about fabric)? Where would I find out what banks existed in Ft. Worth or Dallas at that time period?

Do I get extra points if I put a few simulated 'blood stains' on the bank bags? Come to think of it, Since I'd be using a real needle, the blood stains may not be just 'simulated.'

<grin>

PM sent to RCJ.

I used cotton duck. The bank bag would be made out of a heavier material like duck. The smaller bags can be made out of lighter material. The small bag in the pic is duck. It was made out of some left over material from a different project.

For possible banks you might want to check into someone like my fellow Hoosier, Sam Bass. He was alleged to have withdrawn money from a Texas bank in the 1870s.

If you want to do some "instant aging" make up some strong tea (I like 2 qts. of water with 3 family size tea bags). Wad up your finished bag and throw it in the tea. Then let it soak for a half hour or so.

[kflach]

I guess I should add, "what are the dimensions of a bank bag?"


I seem to have misplaced all my Gold bars so I don't have a handy reference for their size.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks for all the info. This looks like stuff I can put together while I sit and watch old movies.

It looks like I could use the same pattern to create my own Bank Bag. What kind of material was used for those bags - some kind of heavy cotton or wool-based canvas (I don't know squat about fabric)? Where would I find out what banks existed in Ft. Worth or Dallas at that time period?

Do I get extra points if I put a few simulated 'blood stains' on the bank bags? Come to think of it, Since I'd be using a real needle, the blood stains may not be just 'simulated.

<grin>

PM sent to RCJ.

No need to go THAT far, Kevin!  ..... Unless you really want to, of course!   

Like you, I don't know squat about sewing and related topics.  I'd have called that "duck" material Canvas.  Shows ya what I  know!

I bring it up 'cause I have quite a few of the various sized bags - sometimes called "poke bags."  I don't know if you're old enough to remember the old story/song Poke salad Annie.  It's said that gators got her Grannie ... And knowing MY hearing - or lack of it ... the song might have been PoLk salad Annie ...  But I digress.  (Most of) the bags that are made of "standard weight" cotton, what I call basic shirt material, won't stand up to a lot of use.  'Course, holes ARE period correct; as are patches of contrasting fabric.  Anyway, the "duck" (or canvas) will stand up to much more usage.  I have a bag I use for my toilet articles - straight razor, badger brush & soap, tooth powder and bone/bristle toothbrush - YES, I DO use it, despite the fact my daughter said "Yeecccchhh!" when she found out what it was made from; Ivory soap - (VERY  PC, by the way) and some authentic lye-based soap Ottawa Creek Bill's wife, Patty makes and markets; flannel & towel, comb, etc.  (Wile I USE it, for the sake of others around me ... I don't know how PC antiperspirant deodorant is ...
  

Just from carrying it no more than I do, it has had numerous "rub holes" worn into it.  Stock up on that "duck" material.  Also, for some reason, muslin seems to hold up better than regular cotton, too, and is very correct.  Just get lots of different cloth patterns, because these bags were made from scrap material left from other projects.

Have fun!  I love the little details - and these bags hold many of them ... I actually have bags inside of bags inside of bags (haversacks.)  Some ... like my wife ... say I'm "ate up" with it ...........
 

[kflach]

It's occurred to me while going through this thread that if I made two bank bags I could just tie the drawstrings together and throw one over each shoulder and carry them like people do with their saddlebags.

Maybe I could even find plastic rectangular containers that could be painted to look like gold bars and keep some of my stuff inside them.

I don't suppose anyone out there has any extra gold bars (period correct, of course) they'd send me so I could have a good reference...

<grin>

[Dutch Limbach]

Kflach,

When I made mine I used an 18" square of material. I used a 1/2" seam allowance so the finished bags are about  8-1/2" x 17".

I made mine without a drawstring. One of the things I came across while researching period bank bags was bags were generally used to store or transport coins. The bags would be filled with coins, and then sewn shut the way a feed sack is. This was more secure than a drawstring which someone could loosen, slip out some coins, and then tighten the drawstring again. However, there were several examples of bags with drawstrings also.

[James Hunt]

Kflach: If you want to use bank bags that's OK, but you run the risk of some interfering Pinkerton type asking how you came by them - particularly if they are decorated with blood stains. 

RCJ: I thought buggered screws were indicative of level three authenticity? 

[Cole Bluesteele]

I doubt if there was a standard size canvas bank bag.  i have several original ones and they all seem to vary depending on what specific currency or coin amount, if any, they were intended to hold.

I'll bring them to our next match.  Maybe they can help you decide on a size or sizes yu want to make.

Ted

[kflach]

Cole,
I'll be in out in California during the first NCOWS match weekend but I'm planning on being there the second one in January (the 24th). I remember you telling me about your bank bags.

I actually don't have a lot of stuff that I have to put in whatever I use - especially if break it up into smaller containers. The biggest item is my rifle cleaning rods - they break down into 13" segments so whatever I use has to be big enough to accommodate their length. Other than that I could fit everything into a few boxes the size of ammo boxes.

[Dutch Limbach]

I doubt if there was a standard size canvas bank bag.  i have several original ones and they all seem to vary depending on what specific currency or coin amount, if any, they were intended to hold.

I'll bring them to our next match.  Maybe they can help you decide on a size or sizes yu want to make.

Ted

From what I saw when I was looking at examples I agree. With the material I had cutting 18 x 18" was the most convenient. It allowed me to make 6 bags. Two of them I donated to GLFMC. I intended to keep the other 4, but there were a couple of guys that wanted one so I sold two of the remaining 4.

[kflach]

This might be a good place to add, what kind of things would be worn on your gunbelt besides bullets? I seem to remember having read here in the forums that some people use pouches that are attached to their gunbelts.