Billy the Kid's 1873 Winchester

[Dead I]

Another tintype collected by Sallie Chisum.  There can be no question of the identity of this gentlemen.

[Dead I]

Dead I, what is the first picture supposed to be?

Bill

I removed it.  It was a photobucket screw up.

[Stillwater]

I removed it.  It was a photobucket screw up.

Steve:
Do you have any LCW pictures of John Marmaduke Beckwith and Robert Beckwith?

Bill

[Dead I]

Steve:
Do you have any LCW pictures of John Marmaduke Beckwith and Robert Beckwith?

Bill

We've talked before haven't we.  No I don't have any pictures of the Beckwiths.  The only pictures that I have of the Dolan side in the conflict are tintypes of Dolan, Olinger, Mason, and Brady. I actually may have Beckwith since I have few that I cannot identify.  As I consider it, one might be Beckwith, but I rather doubt it.  I will find it and post it. ....here it is:   Again, this picture is as in tintype, so it's a mirror image and reversed from reality.

[Stillwater]

We've talked before haven't we.  No I don't have any pictures of the Beckwiths.  The only pictures that I have of the Dolan side in the conflict are tintypes of Dolan, Olinger, Mason, and Brady. I actually may have Beckwith since I have few that I cannot identify.  As I consider it, one might be Beckwith, but I rather doubt it.  I will find it and post it. 

Thank you steve...

Bill

[Dead I]

Well, Bill; I've posted a Morgan picture that I cannot identify.  He looks rather Beckwithish to me.  I know that at least some of these pictures, which I found within Morgans personal ablum near his home, are LCW related.  One reason I believe this is the picture here attached.  This fellow is Allen J. Ballard, whose picture, very like this one, we see in Nolan's "The West of...."  it's on page 210 of my copy of the book. Here's Mr. Ballard:

[Dead I]

Here's the picture of Ballard in Nolan's "The West of...." book.  Compare the two pictures.  Yep, same fellow.  Which means the others in the Morgan album can be LCW related too. They are flip flopped.  Most men in those days parted their hair on the left side.  My picture is "as in tintype", Nolan's is reversed, so keep that in mind as you compare them. 

[Dead I]

Say, Bill; I just ran across another...Can this fellow be a Beckwith?:   Now this is a real guess.  I have no idea who this young gent is.  It is a Morgan picture however, so maybe he's related to the LCW? 

[Dead I]

Actually, Bill,  I'm not positive that the picture is a Morgan pic.  It is not a tintype.  Morgan graduated from tintypes in 1882 and after that time did not travel about in his wagon, which he had been doing since 1871.  The picture was however found with some other Morgan pictures.  If he is a Beckwith you will have to match it to other pictures of him and decide for yourself.  Tell me what you decide.  I'd like to know too.

[Dead I]

Say, folks I believe we have just solved a problem concerning this collection of tintypes.  Many pundits agree that Sallie Chisum owned some of the pictures and many know that I've met her family.  They also understand that some or all of the pictures were taken by a man named George W. Morgan.  However some disclaim the collection because Morgan could not be placed in Lincoln.

Well, we've just done it!  We know that the picture of Allen J. Ballard was published in Nolan's "The West of.....".  We also know from history that Ballard was a player in the LCW.  In addition I found Ballard's picture taken by and marked George W. Morgan in his home in Wisconsin.  Therefore he was in both places and the pictures prove it.  He therefore was not only interested in the people involved in the LCW he also took their pictures, since we have Ballard's tintypes to prove it.

Therefore, the pictures are authentic and we now know what many of the people who participated in that bloody conflict looked like during the time bullets were flying!  How cool is that!  I'm working on a book of pictures that I'll write to be a companion to all of the Billy the Kid, LCW histories out there.  I mean, you need to know what they all looked like don't you?

 

[Stillwater]

Say, Bill; I just ran across another...Can this fellow be a Beckwith?:   Now this is a real guess.  I have no idea who this young gent is.  It is a Morgan picture however, so maybe he's related to the LCW? 

Steve, this fellow probably isn't a Beckwith, or related to the Beckwith's.

I just emailed you two pictures of the Beckwith's, John Marmaduke Beckwith, and Robert Beckwith.

Bill

[Dead I]

In the case of my collection of tintypes, most of them were collected by Sallie Chisum, others I have found were taken by G.W. Morgan who also took most of the pictures Sallie collected.  So for a picture to be in the collection that I found it had to originally have found it's way into Sallie's hands.  Since the Beckwiths were dedicated enemies of the Chisum's there is slight chance that she would have got ahold of a picture of them.  However she did get a picture of Brady, Mason, and Olinger.  I think that Sallie, as well as other women; looked at the LCW as a battle between the menfolk.  She was probably friends with Eliza Jane Hester, who was Buck Powell's wife.  Buck was a Seven Rivers leader, and an enemy of the Regulators.  If that is, I can declare people whose pictures are in Sallie's collection as her friends.     

[Mr.Crumbpacker]

We've talked before haven't we.  No I don't have any pictures of the Beckwiths.  The only pictures that I have of the Dolan side in the conflict are tintypes of Dolan, Olinger, Mason, and Brady. I actually may have Beckwith since I have few that I cannot identify.  As I consider it, one might be Beckwith, but I rather doubt it.  I will find it and post it. ....here it is:   Again, this picture is as in tintype, so it's a mirror image and reversed from reality.

Good day Squires,

My penchant is identifying old photos, been working on William Bonney and Vincent Van Gogh amongst others.

In my view, the photo you have here is of the same man you identify as possibly being Rudabaugh.

Biggest clue, apart from the overall measurements is the internals of the visible ear,  as good as a finger print, and used today to identify burglars who listen at windows.

Should be remembered, that wearing a hat pulls the ears forward, and angle of face to camera can dramatically alters the apparent position of ears to other facial features.

The angle of the face in front view can be difficult to judge, also the head/neck angle needs to be taken into account.

Another point to consider is the photographic techniques at the time, tended to obscure contrast, bleaching out or darkening eyebrows, hair and skin tone particularly around the eyes.

[Mr.Crumbpacker]

Forgot to mention, both appear to have a slight squint.

[FEATHERS]

I'm sorry to stick my nose in here,but I for one would like to see this thread get back on track,that being Billy the Kid's 1873 Winchester,not post after post of repitition.Just to let you know this pic is what the thread is about

[Rube Burrows]

I'm sorry to stick my nose in here,but I for one would like to see this thread get back on track,that being Billy the Kid's 1873 Winchester,not post after post of repitition.Just to let you know this pic is what the thread is about

Is this supposed to be Billy's Rifle?

Having never been out west to any of the Museums, I have never seen the one or ones on display.

It def looks to be different from the one in the famous pic.  

[FEATHERS]

Rube,No that's not Billy's gun, I just put a pic of a 1873 up there to stress the original point of the thread

[Dead I]

This is Billy and his '73 Winchester:

[Dead I]

The picture is of Deluvina Maxwell and the Kid.  The rifle is a half stocked 73 Winchester probably in 44/40.  This rifle is on display in the Ruidoso River Museum in Ruidoso.  It was captured when the Kid was killed and eventually cut down just in front of where the oct barrel turns round and a new sight was affixed.  This is a rifle and not a carbine.

[Dead I]

Well, I donno about the Kid's rifle/carbine, but this is very much like his pistol: