Qaulifying rifles and shotguns

[delmar]

Is there a thread that lists all the rifles and shotguns that qualify to be used in a SASS match? If not perhaps
we could talk about that here?

[Jefro]

Howdy delmar, the Shooters Handbook lists approved firearms and for which category they may or may not used. Refer to RO I for the rules and applicable penalties. The most popular rifles are the Win 1873-66 and the Marlins, followed by the 92. The Win 1894 and Henry Big Boy are permitted but seldom used, there good reasons why. Stick with the 73-66 or a Marlin if money is tight.

Shotguns are SXS without ejectors, extractors are ok. The Win 1897 is the only approved pump. And also the Win 1887 lever action is allowed. Good Luck.

"This Handbook includes the specific rules, regulations, and general guidelines adopted by
the Single Action Shooting Society. The SASS Range Operations Basic Course and SASS
Range Officer Training Course offer an in-depth interpretation and further clarification
of these rules along with applicable penalties."
http://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php

Jefro

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Don't forget the 1860 Henry clones...

[delmar]

Would a Puma M-92 chambered in 454 Casull qualify for SASS?

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=114407

[Mustang Gregg]

Sure, if it looks like a "normal" M-1892 copy.  No scope, no ammo with velocity over 1400 FPS, etc, etc.
I would hate to lose any of that expensive .454 Casul brass.  But I reckon you may be able to shoot .45 Colt in it too.   

MG

[delmar]

Actually I just noticed it is available in .44 Remington for a few dollars less.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=99615

but the one chambered in LC is about $70 more. Why is that, I wonder?
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=99617

[delmar]

Sure, if it looks like a "normal" M-1892 copy.  No scope, no ammo with velocity over 1400 FPS, etc, etc.
I would hate to lose any of that expensive .454 Casul brass.  But I reckon you may be able to shoot .45 Colt in it too.   

MG

From what I am reading here http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item.aspx?PID=36845&w=PQ%2BJDyOLrQE%3D
It sure looks like the I could fire .45 LC in it. This is not the exact same model no but it looks like the same rifle with
minor differences in features. Here is what it says.

the 454 Casull. The cartridge case is reinforced, and lengthened so that it can not be loaded in guns chambered for the older round. Since this gun is chambered for the
more recent cartridge, it can also chamber the older cartridge...

...There are two ways, in which the gun may be loaded. There is the traditional way, through a loading gate on the right side of the receiver. The standard 45 Long Colt, loads through the gate with no problem, but the longer 454 rounds are a bit hard to get up into the magazine tube. The solution to this, is to have the magazine open at the front, in the manner of countless 22 rifles, so that the rounds may be loaded down the front of the tube, and have the follower pushed in after them.

My question is, Would there be any disadvantage to buying the rifle chambered in 454 caull, since it seems I can buy it for less?

[St. George]

The .45 Colt version is more desireable to more shooters - the .454 Casull just isn't.

Unless you have some un-stated or preceived need for a rifle chambered in that cartridge, and are willing to put up with the associated ammunition costs - the .45 Colt will be a more 'usable' round, with a lot less screwing around.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[delmar]

The .45 Colt version is more desireable to more shooters - the .454 Casull just isn't.

Unless you have some un-stated or preceived need for a rifle chambered in that cartridge, and are willing to put up with the associated ammunition costs - the .45 Colt will be a more 'usable' round, with a lot less screwing around.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

I guess I didn't make my question clear, sorry. The .45 LC ammo chambers in the 454 rifle. Is there any reason
to believe it won't function as well, in that rifle?

[delmar]

Is this rifle an 1892 clone, or something else?

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/86092

[Whiskey Hayes]

Delmar

Yes, the rifle in the link is a '92 clone and SASS legal.  One thing to keep in mind is the '92 clones can be cartridge length sensitive.  The .38 special can be shot in a .357 mag rifle but could feed inconsistently.  This can also be true for the 45 Colt being shot in a 454 rifle.  I have a '92 clone that feeds 357 without a hitch but does not feed 38 special reliably.

If you don't reload, factory cowboy ammo can be purchased in 357 or 45 Colt.  Cowboy rifle ammo spec is lead bullet and less than 1400 fps.  I don't know if 454 is factory loaded to these specs and if it is will most likely be more costly.

Whiskey Hayes

[delmar]

Delmar

Yes, the rifle in the link is a '92 clone and SASS legal.  One thing to keep in mind is the '92 clones can be cartridge length sensitive.  The .38 special can be shot in a .357 mag rifle but could feed inconsistently.  This can also be true for the 45 Colt being shot in a 454 rifle.  I have a '92 clone that feeds 357 without a hitch but does not feed 38 special reliably.

If you don't reload, factory cowboy ammo can be purchased in 357 or 45 Colt.  Cowboy rifle ammo spec is lead bullet and less than 1400 fps.  I don't know if 454 is factory loaded to these specs and if it is will most likely be more costly.

Whiskey Hayes

Thanks for the info, I am currently leaning toward the 357. I talked to a guy on another forum who says his 454
feeds just fine with 45LC but I guess iI don't see the point in  taking the chance that mine won't. I am also trying to get my wife and
daughter interested in cowboy shooting, and they are both a little recoil shy, so shooting a light 357 load would be more fun for them.

[Camille Eonich]

The original '92s were designed around bottle necked cases.  '92s tend to be very sensitive to OAL but I have heard that if you stick with a bottle necked caliber that they tend to be less sensitive and feed better.


I have only ever seen one '92 that could make it through a match without jamming or throwing a round or having various other trouble and even that one started jamming up as the person that used it picked up speed.  They are very nice handling, light guns and I love the way that they look but they are clunky to use.

If you do get one that shoots straight cased ammo, it has been recommended that you use a tapered crimp.  That made no difference with '92 though.

[Fairshake]

Camille, I don't know why there are not any good 92's in NC. I shoot for the most part in Louisiana and Mississippi with several cowboys shooting the 92's with out a hitch. I have owned 4 myself that are sweet to shoot. The Rossi 92 is hard to beat for a cowboy just starting out and trying to keep his cost with in reason. Not every one has $1500 for a slick 73. I have slicked up my 92's myself with the aid of the DVD sold by the GURU of 92's Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones. My 45Colt will feed and fire 45 Schofield and the 357 model will go through a box of 38's like a knife through hot butter. I have seen some models of new 92's that were a bit stiff but nothing that can't be worked out. I'm now the owner of 2 92's that I will never sell and that is one in 45 Colt and one in 44-40. You can start shooting with a 92 for less than $500 and have a lot of fun. The 92 is also the strongest lever action built in it's weight class. The only rifle that is stronger in lever action is the 1886 which is the same rifle built larger for the big calibers. It was designed by the king of firearms John M Browning. Try to shoot your 73 with a hunting load that was meant to be shot in a 92 and see how long it last. Later David

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

That is a 1892 clone. The advertisement says it is 357 Mag though. It appears that there is a safety device of some type on the tippy top of the bolt. I believe I have seen such devices on those rifles before. The originals did not have them. I believe some of the replicas have them. As a matter of fact I owned a replica '92 for a very short while and I believe it had the bolt top safety on it. Often times, rifles manufactured outside the US are required to have extra safety devices for import not required of domestically produced firearms.

Frankly, I believe you would be better off buying a rifle in 45 Colt than one in 45 Casull. I understand trying to save a few bucks, but personally I would go for the 45 rather than the 454 Casull. Be more desireable if you ever want to sell it.

[Jed Cooper]

Delmar, the 454 has a not PC recoil pad, as well as a down right funky looking magazine loading system resembling the way most tube fed 22 rifles are designed. I have several 92 style guns, as well as toggle link designs. 92's can be a little picky, but as earlier stated, they can be tuned to work quite well, and are very enjoyable to shoot, and carry due to their light weight.   Jed

[Texas Lawdog]

I am happy with my Rossi 92 in 38/.357. It does like the .357s better, so that's what I shoot in it. It is considerbly lighter than my Henry.

[Capt. Augustus]

Those Pumas in the 400-500 dollar range won't be around much longer.  They are the Puma's made by Rossi.  If you look down further they are in the $800 range, these are made in Italy.  The importer changed makers.

When I saw this happening, I picked up a 16" Trapper to make a JW rifle before they were too high.  It is a .45 LC, I used Steve's DVD for info on making it smoother.  It still gives me fits with .45 Schofields so it will probably end up shooting  .45 Government.  Starting out the Puma was a lot smoother than an old Interarms that I picked up.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

I am happy with my Rossi 92 in 38/.357. It does like the .357s better, so that's what I shoot in it. It is considerbly lighter than my Henry.

For a general purpose rifle, I use my Marlin 1894C.  Its the older, pre-safety model with microgroove rifling, and it has a Marbles flattop rear sight.  In CAS, I only use it as my back-up to my back-up rifle, and it also likes the .357s much better.

In the general purpose role, and with full-up .357 158-grain JHP rounds, it shoots quite flat out to about 200 yards.

[Camille Eonich]

Camille, I don't know why there are not any good 92's in NC.

I'm not sure why there aren't either but I do shoot a lot more places than just NC so it's not just here that they mess up.  My '92 was purchased from Nate, slicked up by Nate and I spent a small fortune in shipping fees sending it back to Nate trying to get it right.  It went back at least 4 times.  I also spent a small fortune in match fees that first year only to have my '92 jam up with 8 or 9 or 10 rounds left in it.  That's pretty much standard from what I have seen IF the shooter has any kind of speed going in the rifle out all.  Back then I was still shooting 10 and 11 second rifle sweeps though with a '73.  No where near that quick with the '92.


My fault, I was warned before I bought one and insisted on having a '92 and trying to save the money.  That first state championship entry fee would have paid the difference in the '92 and the Marlin too.  I'm just trying to save others from my frustrations and disappointment.  IMO a GOOD '92 is the EXCEPTION while bad ones are the rule.