Time range for period correctness

[Delmonico]

The surface texture looks more like what a fishskin oil slicker has,- a bit too crinkly and shiny overall for leather to me, unless the leather itself was treated for waterproofing like a slicker.
RCJ

Now that makes even more sense, never thought about that.  One of those that I wish Butcher would have taken better notes.

[James Hunt]

The question is a good one. I have one reference of a bank officer keeping his 1851 Navy carried in the CW in his desk drawer to defend his bank well into 1890's. Elmer Keith, the great mid 20th century gun writer stated in his book "Hell I was there" that his first pistol was a 51 Navy and that was just prior to WWI (that is also the only reference I have for a lubed wad being placed between the ball and powder, he used an old felt cowboy hat to make the wad).

Hickock apparently had 51 Navies on him when Jack McCall smoked him in 76, but some writers claim they were conversions. The 7th Cavalry re-issued Rem. NM to Reno's troops when some of the command were sent to Arizona briefly after the 74 campaign, that is from a current treatment on Custer, the title I forgot but can get the reference for you if you desire it (the author commented that it was Custer wanting to control the use of the modern SAA).

I suppose it is what you did, if you were using arms professionally I am hard pressed to think of an instance of cap and ball use in the 1880's. So I guess it is reflective of the persona you choose.

The picture posted by Dell is very interesting if for no other reason than the saddle - that is a looker for sure - and I appreciate his posting it for that reason alone - however I'm not sure you can read much into what surely is a staged photograph. Now if she had a Pinkerton's badge on..., I doubt she rode the range with either weapon, but I bet she road that pony better than I could!

So, can you carry your NM Army and a 92 winchester in NCOWS? Absolutely! And, have a good time doing it. As you grow into the sport you will probably want to narrow your time period, and fine tune your weapons selection to reflect that.

By the way, for my persona and year 1874 I most often shoot a NM army and did so at the NCOWS nationals this year. Came out of the factory in 1864 and is still cranking them out better than I can shoot (OK, OK..., that isn't saying much for the gun ). May yours last as long! Have a good time.

[Delmonico]

James, this might interest you:

In 1981, Robert Vaughn Bell identified the saddle on Austin's horse as being a model 14-P, made by the well-known Cheyenne, Wyoming, saddler Frank Meanea.


The context of this picture has left me wondering for a long time,Butcher used far less props than the photographers that did studio work, but he did use them from time to time.

First thought Wild West Show, but there is no mention of it in the few records of her, although she did range ride for her Dad and later her husband and was known to wear split skirts.

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[Delmonico]

Also James, this is as big as I can post it, played with the exposure and lighting a bit:

[Dr. Bob]

For a Bowie like Daniel Nighteyes, try Atlanta Cutlery.  They have one that is similar, but it is a bit more than $35.  Not nearly as much as a custom made one though.  They have a very good selection.  You might check Crazy Crow Trading Post too.  They have some very nice reasonably priced knives!  Good shopping!!

[Gun Creek Phil]

This very nice Bowie, seems to be the Patrick Henry Liberty Bowie, from the Rough Rider Brand.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

This very nice Bowie, seems to be the Patrick Henry Liberty Bowie, from the Rough Rider Brand.

I looked it up on the eblades website, and you're absolutely correct!

[James Hunt]

Totally stealing this thread but:

Del: Thank you for Zooming in on that saddle. I am a sucker for that stuff for sure. Amazing that she she is all dressed up, the horse has a fine saddle by a premier maker of the time - and look at that saddle blanket, that thing has seen some mileage. Also neat to see that "limp" hemp or Mexican grass rope hanging there. Nothing worse than getting all perioded up and then hanging a poly from your saddle, totally different look.

Could not resist googleing that saddle and got this image. Identified as a Meanea 14-P, what a fine old loop seat double rigged example, big square skirts - I believe these became popular in the 1890's.

[Mogorilla]

As a semi-back on topic, my dad was born in 1932, his father born in 1880.   Dad was the youngest of 10 kids and grew up playing cowboys and indians with cap and ball revolvers kept in the shed.   Grandma donated them for metal during WWII.   I nearly wept when dad told me that.   I have replica 51s, 60s and "58" remmingtons, dad recognized them all from his youth!   On a side, he got in trouble when one went off while they were playing.   still loaded after all those years.  Anyway, dad said his dad carried them while hunting on occasion.  Grandpa also carried a J.P. Lower 32 rim fire that was made in 1863 as an infringement on the Rolling White Patent.   That was not donated for scrap metal as they were still using it 80 years later.  THAT I STILL HAVE!!

[pony express]

I think that you could probably portray at least late 1870's with that '58. Especially in Texas after the war, since any cash money you could come up with would probably have been spent on other necessities.

You could match it up with a '66, Henry, or a Spencer, mix a few pieces of confederate uniform with some period civilian clothes, and be a former soldier turned cowboy.

[River City John]

I think that you could probably portray at least late 1870's with that '58. Especially in Texas after the war, since any cash money you could come up with would probably have been spent on other necessities.

You could match it up with a '66, Henry, or a Spencer, mix a few pieces of confederate uniform with some period civilian clothes, and be a former soldier turned cowboy.

Be careful what pieces of Confederate uniform, as the wearing of such was proscribed. Which mainly would mean that the wearing of the uniform coat and perhaps kepi would be out. Trowsers, shirts, slouch hats would be okay. Not to say the coat buttons couldn't be changed out, along with any rank designation removed. Yes, immediately after the hostilities they were allowed to wear their uniform while in transit returning to their homes. But they would have carried the proper parole papers indicating their status, or suffer being arrested.
I know, as an example, that Union 'occupation' troops were still stationed in Texas through May, 1866, so there was some transition time where you may have seen bits of identifiable Confederate uniform being worn by stragglers coming home, but likely not into the late 1870's.

Remember, the condition of those campaign clothes was also likely not the best at the close of the war, and while they kept their pride in having served, they would have returned rapidly to the wearing of better clothing, if for no other reason than Victorian society abhorred
the thought of an improperly dressed Man. Judging by the survival rate, many Confederate uniforms (and especially Officers, as would be expected), even if still in wearable condition were carefully put away and preserved.   

(The TV show The Rebel had the character wear a gray kepi because it was a visual way to symbolize his former status as a rebel for the story line. Hollywood seems to believe that it was a common sight to see pieces of Confederate uniform being worn years after the end of the war.)
 
 
RCJ

[pony express]

 I didn't think about any possible rules against wearing the uniform after the war.

And you're right, any clothes worn regularly would have been long gone by 1870's, especially things like trousers and shirts. So I guess that my plan would only work for late 1860's.(I thought about doing something like this, but never really got much past my minimum SASS outfit, brown jeans, suspenders, and wah-maker shirt. Now I'm moving over to GAF, Span-AM period)

[River City John]

I didn't think about any possible rules against wearing the uniform after the war.

And you're right, any clothes worn regularly would have been long gone by 1870's, especially things like trousers and shirts. So I guess that my plan would only work for late 1860's.(I thought about doing something like this, but never really got much past my minimum SASS outfit, brown jeans, suspenders, and wah-maker shirt. Now I'm moving over to GAF, Span-AM period)

You're absolutely right. GAF does encourage both authentic and Hollywood interpretations of uniforms. And there is a very close association with NCOWS on the part of GAF in many ways.
Many NCOWS members have dual membership in GAF (as in other organizations), and it is the only one of the shooting organizations where those military long arms get a chance to come out of the gun safe and see some fun in typical action shooting-style meets under their unique "Battle Rifle" category.
Plus, everyone can afford the membership dues to belong to GAF. $0.00 )

There are many venues to satisfy your imagination and I do not want to discourage your dreaming, just a cautionary note as applied to NCOWS and it's historical bent.

You're having fun and challenge of creating your NCOWS persona within the game rules of our organization. Enjoy!
 

RCJ

[Frenchie]

I went mad (crazy, not angry) for a while and sold off my black powder revolvers and accessories. Long story. But now I'm rebuilding the collection. Along with my Mitchell Arms SAA (Uberti), I have a Whitney Navy (Palmetto), a Colt 1860 Army (Pietta) and a Remington Pocket Pistol (Pietta). My persona is set in 1876, give-or-take a couple years, a retired infantry sergeant who settled in Kansas and opened a combination dry goods store, boarding house and saloon. The firearms were sort of picked up here and there, mostly due to scalawags who skipped out on the rent and inadvertently left various personal items behind. I'm not someone who uses guns on a day-to-day basis, so the tried-and-true familiarity of cap 'n' ball is just fine with me. I do need a long arm, and am leaning toward a Smith artillery carbine unless I stumble over a really good deal on something like a '66 or '73 Winchester.

[River City John]

I went mad (crazy, not angry) for a while and sold off my black powder revolvers and accessories. Long story. But now I'm rebuilding the collection. Along with my Mitchell Arms SAA (Uberti), I have a Whitney Navy (Palmetto), a Colt 1860 Army (Pietta) and a Remington Pocket Pistol (Pietta). My persona is set in 1876, give-or-take a couple years, a retired infantry sergeant who settled in Kansas and opened a combination dry goods store, boarding house and saloon. The firearms were sort of picked up here and there, mostly due to scalawags who skipped out on the rent and inadvertently left various personal items behind. I'm not someone who uses guns on a day-to-day basis, so the tried-and-true familiarity of cap 'n' ball is just fine with me. I do need a long arm, and am leaning toward a Smith artillery carbine unless I stumble over a really good deal on something like a '66 or '73 Winchester.

Frenchie, mon ami, that is fantastic! "He's back in the saddle again."
     By the way, I have been lusting after one of those Whitney clones for some time. If you would ever like to trade for a Cimarron Uberti '63 Remington Navy, plus odds and ends, straight across the board, you let me know.

RCJ

[kflach]

I took some advice and checked the back pages in one of the CAS City forums I was less familiar with. I came across this thread in the CAS City Historical Society forum that addressed this same question. I thought I'd go ahead and post the link here in case any lurkers are following this thread.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,26996.0.html

Thanks for the advice St. George!