Large Bore / Pistol Side Match

[James Hunt]

This thread is a spin off of the trapdoor carbine thread - with no desire to high jack it I thought I would take the premise of that threat and advance it beyond use of a trapdoor alone.

NCOWS is about shooting in a historical manner. Many, many fights occurred using large bore rifles and when things got up close and personal a pistol was drawn. Examples include the Custer fight, adobe walls, and others. With a large bore rifle being defined as anything not shot in a pistol - would not a side match using a large bore carbine or rifle from 50 - 100 yards and a pistol at pistol ranges be a fine time.

Now I know this can't be done at all ranges, some of which you can almost reach out and touch the berm. But the Westside is perfectly designed for such a match.

Of course the next question is does large bore mean single shot? I suppose that for fairness it would have to be or there would be a need to develop different shooting categories for the side match.

BUT, I am not a fan of fairness - life isn't fair. If my sharps has to compete against a 76 or a Spencer so be it - that was the way they did it. Also I would support shooting from any position, maybe subtracting bonus seconds if you actually have brains enough to seek cover. If you want to two hand your pistol, fine - one hand it, that is fine also.

Finally, as I described in that other thread I would support unusual scoring that would put some pressure on accuracy - sort of an all or none approach. Allow so much ammo, or if you fail to engage the long range target add more pistol targets loading on the clock. Fail to hit all your targets and we assume that target will shoot you. Your dead, you lost, we'll bury you.

I think this would be a hoot an allow some fella's to pull out some long guns they don't usually use. What do you think?

[Cole Bluesteele]

Got a few clubs around here that host a Cody/Dixon match.  You shoot the same 2 pistol, shotgun and rifle type stages, but use either a big bore single shoot (Dixon) or a lever action (Cody) rifle instead of a pistol caliber rifle.  Rifle targets are between 75 and 125 yards.

Cole

[Will Ketchum]

Sounds like fun.  I have an orginal trapdoor rifle that I would use.  I would suggest man sized targets for the rifle.

Will Ketchum

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[Ottawa Creek Bill]

James...
I really like that idea....why don't you define it more. It would make a heck of a side match. I've got a 45/70 Rolling Block just itching for a match like this. Pistol and long range...man what a treat!

Bill

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Pete.....or buffalo sized targets...well maybe half sized at 100-200 yards.

Bill

[Will Ketchum]

Bill, I was thinking of a fight since I didn't thin one would use a revolver in a buffalo hunt.  I can think of a team match where you have a couple of soldiers with single shots and a scout with a repeater something like the Wagon Box fight.

Will Ketchum

[Dusty Tagalon]

For closer range with the 45/70. I shoot a gallery load. 20 grains of bp sub, a wonder wad on top of the powder & a .457 ball pressed down to the top of the wonder wad.

Brian

[Patrick Henry Brown]

I like it James. Great idea! Stay after it. 

[Books OToole]

I think is was Buffalo Harvest, that discussed a buffalo hunter's camp fight with Indians where the auther used a pistol & a shotgun.

The Camp Keeper Class? 

Now there's a team side match:

Bufflalo Hunter with big-bore single shot,
2 Skinners with lever guns,
1 camp keep with shotgun &/or pistol.


Books



 

[James Hunt]

Not a bad idea Books, sort of a team event.

[James Hunt]

Continuing to expand on the idea:

To simulate a battle a long range that closes to short distances (or starts at short distance and ends at long range).
1/ The event would require the use of a large bore rifle of any type - single shot or repeater using traditional BP loads for the cartridge, and a second weapon used at close range.
2/ The large bore must be used in or in excess of 50 yds to whatever distance the stage can accommodate.
3/ Close range would require the use of a second weapon, a shotgun, pocket pistol or full size pistol - shooters choice.
4/ Scoring would be a combination of elapsed time and required hits - any target standing when ammo is out is assumed to have killed you.

In example (scenario 1)

a/ Engage Buffalo sized target with 3 shots at 100 yards - shooter is allowed unlimited ammo but must hit three times before proceeding. Can shoot standing or sitting or kneeling with rest sticks - but not prone.
b/ Once buffalo is "killed" five Comanches are seen charging over the horizon thinking to catch a hunter out in the open.
c/ You can't hit an Indian charging at 100 yards on horseback  but you can kill his horse - use rifle to shoot two horses (rifle targets) at 100 yards - but only one shot each -  those you miss are still bearing down on you.
d/ If you knocked two horses down at 100 yards proceed to (e) - if you missed a horse or two at 100 yards you must try again at however many you missed  (rifle target) at the 50 yard line - one shot per Indian missed only.
e/ They are now on top of you, if you have previously knocked two horses down use second weapon with five available rounds to engage three small  targets at close range - these three must be killed before you proceed - if you need to proceed.
f/ If you failed to take down two horses at either the 100 or 50 yard line you now have to kill those you left at close range should you have any any remaining rounds - if not your dead - 10 minute penalty! Any Indians left alive inside 50 yards (close range) is assumed to have killed you.
G/ BONUS SHOT: Off the clock for those left alive. There are Indians shaking their coup sticks at you from 100 yards, saying things about your mother, you need to discourage this. Pick up your long range rifle and engage a rifle target at 100 yards. Kill the Indian with one shot and your time is reduced 10 seconds. Taught that rascal a lesson didn't you.

In example (scenario 2)

You are a scout in advance of a small vigilance committee hunting down desperadoes. Clearing a small hill on the southern plains you abruptly encounter your quarry - four renegades, three Mexicans, two proper looking fellows and a nasty looking Irishman going by the name of Books OToole. About 100 yards apart you stare at each other a moment until they open fire at you.

Step off of your horse and continuing to hold your reins in your hand you kneel to take a shot with your long range rifle at this group of bandits. You have as much rifle ammo as your belt or pocket will hold. The fight begins at long range.

a/ Engage the group (rifle) at 100 yards until you have killed 5 of your antagonists - when that is done they get really mad and charge you.
b/ Still holding your reins, engage them again at 50 yards with two shots at a rifle target - a hit is a kill.
c/ Drop your reins and seek cover behind a small rock and kneeling at close range (pistol targets) finish the remaining riders off with your second weapon, If you expend five rounds and any bad guys are left - you die - 10 minutes added to your score.

Or, something like that.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

James....

Outstanding!....Looks like I'll be making a full sized wooden horse with headstall for this one.
Bill

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Outstanding job as always Mr Hunt...!

I like what you're aiming at. My only confusion is what side match category to pick at this point. I like the idear of being a doughboy with my 1870 .50-70 and infantry set-up. However, the buffalo camp tender idea Books thought of sounds great too: With a small loaf of camp baked bread my hand, a basting spoon tucked in my belt, a meat fork clenched in my teeth, and wielding a shot gun to boot I'll do my best...!

Brass

[Books OToole]

Brass;

Your camp keeper should meet "Tio Miguel."  Tio's specialty is fresh ground coffee, brewed with rain water.  He packs a converted Remington (in a flap holster) and always has an improved Henry* close to hand.


Books



* He'd rather eat antelope than sage hen.