merwin and hulbert replicas

[kurt250]

 ???o.k. here goes.i i don't know if you shooters have heard but a company has sent me a e-mail about taking orders for m&h replicas. there web site is www.merwinhulbertco.com. i haven't seen one of there pistols or heard of anyone who has. i don't know if there really going to produce them or what. i these days after the latest scams that have happen to investers it will take alot more then there e-mails to get me to put a deposit down. i really hope the are going to produce them. how may more s.a.a style pistols can the make. but at least show me one picture of one or something. they say there going to have them made by "proven current manufactures" who? i never heard of a" proven current manufacture" are there unproven manufactures, or noncurrent ones? they say pictures are coming shortly. i can photo a pistol here in my shop and put on the computer in a few min. whats the hold up? like maybe they DON'T EVEN HAVE ONE YET! i don't want to throw cold water on these  guys, i really do hope the get them into production. i'll buy a brace of them so long as ther the military long barrel version in 44 wcf. but come on, if you want someone to but a deposit down show us something. if anyone has any info on these guys or the guns please share it with us. kurt250

[Pettifogger]

The history of start up specialty firearms companies is very poor.  The market for an M&H would be very small.  Hard to visualize how they can make money.  They have had the website for a couple of years.  So far not even a prototype.  Never send in your hard earned dollars to pay for someone else's research and development.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Never send in your hard earned dollars to pay for someone else's research and development.

Like the gov't bailouts? 

[Advertising]

[Andy Pickard]

I saw the web site a couple of years ago. It appears they are" testing the water"  so to speak to see if there is a market. It sure would be nice to have a couple of them but modern prices will most likely put them out of my range

[Dalton Masterson]

They posted a price around 1200, but with the options and extra barrels and cylinder I want, it put me to 1500 and change. No money sent, but am a prospective buyer when one is in hand. DM

[arkiebob]

I emailed them yesterday and got an immediate and prompt reply, which was better than I can get from any other manufacturer.

[St. George]

I'd imagine that if one was looking for seed money before having an actual product to build, that the response time'd be quick...

Hell, what else could they be doing, since they're certainly not building anything that anyone's seen or handled.

A notoriously difficult-to-machine weapon, with an unusual sense of ergonomics and with a limited popularity in in it's heyday - the Merwin, Hulbert has little or no discernable interest to the average sportsman, and unless it's to fail immediately - the 'average guy' is going to have to want to buy it in order to offset costs.

The relatively small market of C&WAS folks who 'want' one won't pay what the retail cost would be, since they'd also be paying all initial costs associated with start-up, as those costs would have to be passed on.

That further limits the potential purchasing field.

For the above-mentioned $1200 - I'd think that that would be a low figure, and much closer to wholesale cost.

The Smith & Wesson Schofield - actually built by Smith & Wesson - suffered the same problem of pricing and it ended production, because of it's limited appeal to the average shooter's wallet.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[kurt250]

st. george is right. i  would love to get one but it has to be a serivable pistol that will work with black powder.thats why there has to be several made and tested before people will buy them. i have heard that uberti is working on one also. there may be a chance we will see something out of this. i hope so. considering what was produced 10 years ago in the replica market and what around now , it may happen. kurt250

[St. George]

Entering into production of a Merwin, Hulbert - with all of the convoluted machining and fitting and subsequent handwork involved in  tweaking at a time when the average shooter's 'disposable' income is on the wane - and where there's no large market of shooters eagerly awaiting it beyond a truly small number of C&WAS shooters who'd consider paying for one, would doom the project from the outset.

For years, Cimmaron was 'supposed' to be looking at building one and 'they' have an established system of Italian manufacturers who already have facilities and experience - yet nothing's emerged from them, due largely to the marketing issue and difficulty of reproducing it.

Hard to push for production/sales of a new weapon during a recession, and in general - C&WAS guns aren't big sellers anyway.

If you've ever had the pleasure of shooting an original - believe me, they're not a lot of fun, even with black powder, since that massive bird's head/skullcrusher grip on the Pocket Army makes for an uncomfortable shooting session ergonomically.

Would I buy one?

Probably not, since there are enough good originals out there for the kind of money a fake would cost - and originals will appreciate in value and pride of ownership, whereas the clone won't.

Keep an eye on this guy - if he gets a few more inquries, he'll be offering a Forehand and Wadsworth via the same method.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Fox Creek Kid]

I heard from a "source" that the next replica offered from Uberti may be a S&W American in .44 Russian. Makes sense as 95% of the programming is already set on CAD with their Russian Model. Just change a few things. However, I'm sure they would not use the original rack & pinion ejection system but the better Schofield type that they use in the Russian Model.

Remember, this is an UNCONFIRMED source.

[kurt250]

if they come out with a s&w american i want a brace of them. kurt250

[Abilene]

Uberti started on the Merwin for Cimarron in early 2008.  I don't know how far they have gotten, do know that there will not be a sample at Shot Show.  When I asked if it would be with the skullcrusher grip, I was told the first one made will have the plowhandle grip.   That's all I know about that.

As for the American, last year when I asked Mike Harvey if there were any plans for it, I was told that he would love to have Uberti make it but there were no immediate plans at that time (he owns Texas Jack Omohundro's S&W American).  And that's all I know about that.   

[Jrw8214]

I would love it if they reproduced the Model 3 American. Thats actually my favorite model 3, even over the Schofield. To me the barrel-mounted latch on the Americans/Russians/New Model 3's look alot more sturdy than the latch on the Schofield.

[Flint]

I mentioned on another post that my gut feel is the Schofield latch is more likely to shoot open.  It required cutting away some leather on the holsters as the holsters broke in the guns seated deeper and trip the Schofield latch, it comes out open...  Wouldn't happen to a #3 latch.

[Jrw8214]

Exactly. And its not like the #3 latch is hard to open with one hand anyways. Ive got one on an old Iver Johnson pocket revolver and all i have to do is put my thumb under it and push up. Even on horseback, surely it wouldnt take anything to reach your gun hand over to your reins hand and let two fingers open the latch while holding the reins. But that said, i still love Schoields and would rather have a Model 3 Top Break than any other revolver.

[Thunderman]

Italian factory Uberti wanted to produce the Merwin & Hulbert revolver in 2007 year, they told about it at one of
gun exhibition. But the M&H is not still in produce , it seems it will not be in produce for this year again. May be latter.
But Uberti  prepared to manufacture another nice gun for this year !

[Montanian]

The 1870's, 1873 to be precise, was the start of an economic depression unmatched until the 1930's, in that case thanks to manipulation of railroad stocks and bonds, Northern Pacific RR in particular, so most of the great cartridge revolvers were introduced in the teeth of a depression.   The 1850's were a rough time too.   Speciality firearms companies that started up and often went through extremely tough times for years before catching on:  Colt Patersons, Volcanic Rifles, Smith & Wesson, Henry Rifles/Winchester, Spencer Rifles, Burnside Carbines, Sharps Rifles, Hunt & Jennings Rifles, Evans, Whitney-Kennedy, Bullard, Ballard, Marlin, Auto-Ordnance, Savage, Ruger, Great Western...I can't think of any that had an easy start, an obvious product, instant distribution, instant acceptance, etc. which is true across most industries when you look at where companies start. 

I'm sure glad I missed the opportunity to buy a foolhardy Colt Paterson, 1857 Volcanic, Smith & Wesson No.1, 1860 Henry, 1860 Spencer, 1851 Sharps, 1921 Thompson...those flimsy new companies couldn't have put out anything worth holding on to.   

If the machining on a Merwin, which really isn't that much beyond the period Smith & Wessons, seems overwhelming, look inside a sewing machine, car engine, etc. for complex, precision-machining.   A fellow from an EG&G plant where they made nuclear equipment for decades asked me 20 years ago if I knew of civilian applications for their ability to get to 1/70,000ths of an inch tolerances consistently!  19th Century tolerances were a 1/4th to 1/8 th inch with gunmakers at the forefront sometimes achieving 3/1000ths of an inch by the end of the 19th Century.   1/10,000ths' of an inch with CNC equipment is getting more common.   They won't be making new guns with buffalo-hide belts driven by a coal-fired steam engine using specailly built machine tools although that'd be pretty cool to see, but that takes skilled workers that'll accept terribly low wages too.

Filing for quality means you don't have quality, Springfield Armory proved that in the early 1800's...Merritt Roe Smith's history of Harper's Ferry and Springfield Armorys' conflicting methods and results is a fascinating look at that age-old arguement of skilled hands or specialized machine tools.

 

[eldorado888]

Below is the current status of this massive fraud which has been perpetuated upon trusting enthusiasts who put deposits on guns and upon the State of South Dakota and the City of Glenrock Wyoming.  It looks like Michael Blank the CEO of A-Aquare/Merwin Hulbert etc is going to get away with this as well.

This was found online.


MEMORANDUM

TO: Whom It May Concern

SUBJECT: Status of Sharps Rifle Company LLC, Merwin, Hulbert & Co. LLC, A-Square of South Dakota LLC and A-Square of Wyoming LLCa nd related brands and divisions including but not limited to H H Heiser, Sharps MilSpec, Pope Barrels, et al.

DATE:March15, 2012

In August of 2011,faced with the pending insolvency of Sharps Rifle Company, LLC, Merwin, Hulbert & Co., LLC, A-Square of South Dakota LLC and A-Square of Wyoming LLC, Michael Blank, the CEO engaged the Advisory Services of Kevin Tierney and William Martin. Following an exhaustive analysis of the businesses of A-Square South Dakota LLC, A-Square Wyoming LLC, Merwin, Hulbert & Co. LLC, and Sharps Rifle Company LLC, Michael Blank, with the assistance of Kevin Tierney and William Martin determined in early October 2011 that A-Square of South Dakota LLC and A-Square of Wyoming LLC as well as Merwin, Hulbert & Co. LLC and Sharps Rifle Company LLC were insolvent and no longer viable. Employees in both A-Square locations were let go.

A-Square of South Dakota’s secured creditor was notified that the company’s operations had ceased and its facility and contents were turned over to the building’s owner and the secured creditor. In addition, Sharps Rifle Company LLC’s main Office In St. Louis was closed.

Further, on February 15, 2012,  Michael Blank conveyed all of the equipment located in Glenrock, WY belonging to A-Square of Wyoming LLC as well as all of the intangible assets belonging to A-Square South Dakota and Wyoming, Merwin, Hulbert & Co. LLC and Sharps Rifle Company, LLC to Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. a Wyoming corporation formed by Kevin Tierney and William Martin.

On or about February 15, 2012,  Kevin Tierney, the CEO of the new Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. informed the Town of Glenrock, WY that A Square of Wyoming LLC was defaulting on its lease with the town and that Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. would like to present a proposal to the town that would afford Mr. Tierney and his partner, William Martin (President & COO) the time necessary to raise $1,300,000 in order to re-launch operations of the new Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. in the Glenrock, WY.  facility.

Mr. Tierney was invited by the Glenrock Town Council to present his proposal at a meeting on February 27, 2012. Mr. Tierney explained his reasons for closing the Glenrock facility and described the financial condition of the old companies as “toxic” if not “radioactive”. He told the Council that “there is financial tragedy across the board”. He further explained that the State of South Dakota and one of its major financial institutions had lost a lot of money. Mr. Tierney also indicated that the State of Wyoming and the Town of Glenrock had believed in a lot of people. He then took care to cite the numerous consumers who had invested money in firearms that were never delivered and assured the Town Council that if they looked favorably upon the proposal, that it is the intention of the new Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. “to make right by those people”. The Glenrock Town Council is working with their attorney in considering the company’s proposal and a decision is anticipated within the next two weeks.


As of February 2012, Mr. Tierney and Mr. Martin have formed Sharps Capital Group, LP. a Wyoming limited partnership, the general partner of which is TM Advisors, LLC ,a Wyoming limited liability company. Sharps Capital Group, LP has retained Michael Blank, the former CEO of Sharps Rifle Company, LLC, through the new Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. to serve as its Chief Armorer and Director of Strategic Development upon the successful completion of the Phase I funding.

Sharps Capital Group, LP is launching a highly innovative sector-focused private equity initiative in three PHASES that will leverage a special growth opportunity in the firearms industry.


PHASE I $1,300,000 Mezzanine convertible debt (12 months)
PHASE II $5,000,000 Equity
PHASE III $20,000,000 Equity

By combining a number of ‘small cap’ companies into a single portfolio under an iconic brand, Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. the Sharps Capital Group LP will create a unique blend of traditional and modern brands and products to garner above market returns in the international firearms industry.

With an aggressive philosophy for quality, integrity and sustainability, Sharps Capital initiative endeavors to make a responsible impact by bridging old economy craftsmanship and new economy market practices. Sharps Capital integrates its core expertise for disciplined long term capital appreciation backstopped by a clear strategic vision to build durable value for its partners. The Sharps name is among the most powerful brands in the U.S. firearms market.

Mr. Tierney and Mr. Martin have completed the necessary documentation in order to raise the $1,300,000 in investment in Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. and have begun making presentations to potential investors. Once the necessary capital has been secured by the new Sharps Rifle Company, Inc., Mr. Tierney and Mr. Martin will immediately implement Phase I of the business plan and begin the production, sale and shipment of the Merwin Hulbert revolvers and the Sharps Relia-Bolt from its facility in Glenrock, WY.









A-Square defaults on lease–CEO closes doors, proposes new business
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Kevin Tierney
Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. CEO Kevin Tierney presents his business proposal to the Town Council Feb. 27.
Posted: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:44 am |
Updated: 11:27 am, Thu Mar 15, 2012.
Jesse Bishop
Despite hopes that Sharps Rifle Company, LLC, and A-Square of Wyoming would be able to find investors to restart Glenrock operations this year, A-Square of Wyoming is no more. During its regular meeting Feb. 27, the Glenrock Town Council authorized the town attorney to take any legal procedures necessary to terminate the lease agreement with A-Square after accepting their default. After events surrounding A-Square’s former owner and founder Art Alphin led Sharps CEO Michael Blank to shut down both A-Square of South Dakota and Sharps’ main operations in St. Louis, Blank conveyed ownership of all contents in the Glenrock operation to the new CEO Kevin Tierney, and his partner William Martin. After the deal was struck, it was determined that the company as a whole was not fit to even exist. “There is financial tragedy across the board,” Tierney said. “The State of South Dakota has lost a lot of money, the major financial institution in South Dakota has lost an awful lot of money. The State of Wyoming and the Town of Glenrock believed in a lot of people and invested alot of money to build this facility. There have been numerous consumers who invested money for guns which were not delivered.” Tierney asked Town Council for understanding, explaining his decision to completely shut down the company due to the fact that its financial condition was “toxic, if not radioactive.” He proposed a break on lease payments for a replacement company called Sharps Rifle Company, Inc., which he created using the equipment and intellectual property he acquired from Blank. “If you allow me to work with you with this new company that I intend to form, I’m going to make right by those people and they’re not going to lose a dime,” he said. Tierney announced his plan to raise $1 million from investors over the next six months in order to begin production in Glenrock of a new product that he proposed will be a “positive game changer in the industry.” With his business plan, he anticipates being able to keep a very viable business in Glenrock in the building that formerly housed A-Square. His plan doesn’t end there, however. “After we raise our million dollars, we’re going to try to strike gold and go for $5 million of equity,” Tierney said. “With the $5million of equity, we’re going to try to acquire two, possibly three companies in the firearms industry. We currently have six companies in America that have expressed interest to be acquired by us once we raise the capital.” Tierney’s proposal to the town was less than sugarcoated, however. He admitted that his company does not have the funds to pay rent on the lease agreement for the building. He proposed that the town give his new company the same lease agreement A-Square had, but defer rent for six months while he raises the needed equity. “I need six months to try to raise $1 million,” he said. “I can’t pay the rent for six months--March, April, May, June, July and August. I’m requesting that the Town of Glenrock will allow me to consolidate the next six months of rent plus all the back taxes, and the next six months of rent and taxes going forward. I’m proposing to pledge as collateral all of the equipment that’s in that building to the Town of Glenrock. Upon me raising the $1 million, I will immediately repay the note and obligation, and I commit to prepay six months more of rent and taxes so that we can be good corporate citizens in this community going forward.” Tierney estimated the rent and taxes to be owed to the Town at around $30,000, but said he believes the equipment offered as collateral is worth$100,000. After going into executive session to discuss Tierney’s proposal, Council referred the matter to legal counsel for due diligence and to draft a possible agreement with Sharps Rifle Company, Inc. Council will consider the matter at its next meeting March 12.The town’s major concern is the involvement of the Wyoming Business Council, which approved a $1.5 million economic development grant to bring a gun manufacturing company to Glenrock, and to build the 8,500-sq.-ft. facility. “We got an economic development grant for that building,” Community Development Director Kathy Patceg said. “It was to supply a new business and jobs for our community, so hope fully this can be used for that. The Business Council really went out on a limb to build such a specific building, so we want to try to keep it in the shooting and sports business.”

[Lefty Dude]

I talked with the Cimarron folks at Winter range in february here in phoenix. I ask about the M & H, the reply was. "Not in Cimarron's lifetime". They dropped the project, and it will never return.

[fowler]

  I have heard from the company and M&H will be out this year. I expect one in my holster. The finest western handgun ever made.