Factory Ammo

[Lash Batson]

Folks,

I'm the proud owner, as of this morning, of a lightly used Pedersoli Sharps 1874.  Woo! I'm not a reloader, although I got a set of dies with the deal. So what make of factory ammo does everyone suggest that I use to get started with?

— Lash Batson

[Lash Batson]

Calibre?
Smokeless Powder?
Black Powder?
Lead Bullet?
Jacketed Bullet?
Hunting?
Target?
Short Range?
Mid Range?
Long Range?

Thanks Seth - your questions actually help alot. The easy answer; 45/70 and for target, so I'm guessing Lead Bullet.

But what would short/mid/long range distances be considered for the Sharps?

And lets say both smokeless and Black powder.

— Lash Batson

[bear tooth billy]

These guns were made for black and they work best with it. At our buffalo shoots (steel) sometimes
we get a beginner who shows up with smokeless, after 2 days of shooting and lots of advice
they always come back with real black. Tell us your caliber and you can get load data right here

[Grogan]

Folks,

I'm the proud owner, as of this morning, of a lightly used Pedersoli Sharps 1874.  Woo! I'm not a reloader, although I got a set of dies with the deal. So what make of factory ammo does everyone suggest that I use to get started with?

— Lash Batson

My guess is, that just like a newbie Buffalo Hunter, stepping out onto the Prairies in the early 1870s, you're about to BECOME a Reloader! 

Welcome to BPC Rifles.

Just sayin...

[Deadeye Don]

Lash,   Since you are NOT a reloader  and you are asking for FACTORY  ammo,  I would suggest you go with Goex for real black powder and that you also consider TENX for a black powder sub.  Either one would serve you well.

[Bristow Kid]

Lash,

Take it from someone who knows first hand.  Learn to reload and use black powder.  When I started shooting the long range and buffalo shoots.  I was using Ultramax  smokeless factory loads.  The problems were as follows
A.  Bullet weight too light most are only 405 gr.  You need atleast a good 500 gr bullet to knock down some of the buffalos.
B.  Not much range accuracy.  The further the distances got the less accuracy I had.
C.  Its cheaper to reload.  smokeless Ultramax is about $1 a round and that was 4 years ago when I bought it in bulk from Cabela's Average Buffalo match is 100 targets x $1 a round = $100 in ammo
D. the real black powder shooters snicker behind your back.

Ok D. was just a joke.  They never really snickered at me.  But they were more then willing to help me get started shooting and reloading black powder.

Bristow Kid

[Delmonico]

Ok D. was just a joke.  They never really snickered at me.  But they were more then willing to help me get started shooting and reloading black powder.

Bristow Kid

Yes they did,  they just were careful to let you not hear them.

[Bristow Kid]

Del,

Your gonna discourage the new guy Hush on the laughing talk.

[Delmonico]

Del,

Your gonna discourage the new guy Hush on the laughing talk.

We'll either scare him away or we'll get him set on the right path.

[Bristow Kid]

It worked for me before my first season of long range shooting was over I was loading my own with bp and Lash before that I had never loaded a round in my life.  My best advice is to start slow and ask alot of questions.  You'll find that most of the pards around these parts are mighty knowledgeable and more then willing to help. 

By the way I never turned back from the darkside  theres just something about the smoke and the fire and a good hearty BOOM!!!!!!

Makes them smokeless loads sound like pop guns.  Like I learned after my parents video taped a shoot.  You could really tell when I shot.  But most of all have fun thats what its all about.

[Delmonico]

My theroy is if you ain't havin' fun with what you do, then stay home and watch TV, everyone will benifit.

[Lash Batson]

Okay Pards, I'm sold on the BP, no further convincing needed! But now I just want to get there and rattle some windows!

So what factory 45-70 Government, Black Powder 405 grain lead bullet wonders should I buy??!!!

Don suggested Goex for real black powder and TENX for a sub, any others?

— Lash Batson

[Bristow Kid]

Cant help ya there pard never bought any with BP  Always just loaded my own.

[Otter]

Lash,

Here is ONE source for factory BP cartridges. It's not the only one, but is a good source. Hope you like spending upwards of $2.00 per shot for factory ammo (factory smokeless is not going to be any better). Just to give you an added push to get into reloading, I load 100 rounds of 45-70 for less than $20.00. But I cast my own bullets, punch my own wads and make my own lube.

http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bpstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=thispage&thispage=order_ammo.htm&ORDER_ID=249912909

[Deadeye Don]

Otter,  Thanks for the website link.  I didnt know about that one.

[Lash Batson]

Lash,

Here is ONE source for factory BP cartridges. It's not the only one, but is a good source. Hope you like spending upwards of $2.00 per shot for factory ammo (factory smokeless is not going to be any better). Just to give you an added push to get into reloading, I load 100 rounds of 45-70 for less than $20.00. But I cast my own bullets, punch my own wads and make my own lube.

http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bpstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=thispage&thispage=order_ammo.htm&ORDER_ID=249912909

*sigh* I know, I'm definitely not made of money, so factory loads are giving me some sticker shock. Thats why I was asking about Ammodirect.com, their 45/70 Black Powder 405 grain LRNFP runs about $1.22 each in boxes of 20 and a bit less in larger quantities.

My hope was that someone would give ammodirect a glowing review and give me a way to get started without breaking the bank.

— Lash Batson

[Otter]

Lash,

From Powder Inc (the link I posted) IF you buy 10 boxes of 20 will run you $281.00 including shipping - that's $1.405 every time you pull the trigger (actually that's less than I thought it would be at first glance). I haven't checked Ammodirect, but I would guess the $1.22 per cartridge doesn't include shipping costs (it might, though, as I said I didn't check).

Just to give you more numbers to roll around in your brain, and to try to convince you to get into reloading your own sooner than later, since you'll get there anyhow -

ONE TIME COSTS FOR STARTER EQUIPMENT --
      Lyman Reloading Handbook - $18
      Lee Anniverary kit -        $85 (includes single stage press, balance beam scale, powder measure, chamfer tool
                                          and some other items)
      Lee 45-70 dies -             $24 (3 die set)
      Compression die -            less than $30 (estimated cost)
      RCBS Powder trickler -     $12
      2 - reloading trays -         $10
      Lee Ram prime tool -       $9
      Lee bullet mould -           $20
      Lee 20# lead pot -          $59
      Total -                           $237

Everything above can be used for reloading any centerfire handgun or rifle rounds, with the exception of the dies and mould. And can be used over and over for many, many years.

VARIABLE COST ITEMS TO GET STARTED --
      It's about $60 per 100 for 45-70 brass, you should be able to buy soft lead for $0.40 to $0.50 per pound, tin is in the $8 per pound neighborhood, lube (SPG) is about $5 per stick and is enough to lube several hundred bullets (or make your own for a lot less), 1 pound of powder is $13 in 25 pound lots (1 pound will load 100 rounds min), primers are less than $0.03 each, wads are maybe $10 per 1000. I'm sure I left something out, but nothing major you need to get started. I say "variable costs" because it all depends where you can find some of the stuff and how much of everything you buy, also because these things are pretty much dedicated to BPCR.
     
There are a number of items you can buy later to make the process "easier" or more convenient, but nothing that is a "have to have" to get started. I've got 200 rounds of brass for each of my BPCRs and have shot the same 200 for over ten years. BP is just a lot easier on the brass than smokeless, especially if the smokeless loads are pushing the max loads. The first 3 months after I got my first BPCR, I shot 1500 rounds through it. That's 15 pounds of powder and 87 pounds of 405 gr bullets. In the ten plus years I've been shooting these guns, I've probably gone through over 200 pounds of powder - that's over $24,000 at $1.22 per factory round - for less than $3000 in components and equipment.

Just some things to think about for you. Obvously, I didn't take in to account the cost of the gun(s) to get started . . .

[Deadeye Don]

Lash,  Ammo Direct is a great company for those of us that dont reload.  You will be happy with their products.

[Grogan]

Don't forget to include BPC Drop Tube (dunno how much $$? I made my own)

AND

The "BPCR Primer Handbook"! (I'd consider this a "must read" to get started)

[James Hunt]

The .45-70 is a very forgiving round to load. Albeit you will not be knocking down chickens at 200 yards, but you can virtually load the thing with almost no reloading equipment (I am assuming you have none except the dies you got with the gun).

1/ If all that you want to do is to get started making some noise cheaply, contact Dave Gullo at Buffalo Arms (google the web site) and buy some grease groove bullets, for noise making with a modicum of accuracy anything around 400 to 500 grains will work just fine.
2/ And while you are there buy the Lee primer loader for under $20 (not necessary but after tapping in primers on a piece of hardwood it would be a very reasonable expense).
3/ Get some black powder - any will do - in a 1 1/2 or 2 f grade.
4/ Get a small funnel to pour the powder in the case.- brass is nice, but anything will do to get started.
5/ You don't know what a drop tube is yet so don't worry about it.
6/ Buy one box of factory ammo - smokeless is fine if you want to get the cheapest stuff and fire it thru your rifle. You have now sized your cases to your rifle. You are now ready to reload.
7/ Knock out the primers with a finishing nail and hammer and reprime with any large rifle primers.
6/ Fill the case until the powder is a bit higher than the  base of the bullet.
7/ Since you don't know what wads are yet don't worry about them.
8/ Shove your bullet in until all of the grease grooves are covered.

This works - my entry into black powder with an old .38-55 Winchester was done in this manner. You will not win any matches but I bet you get at least pie plate accuracy at 100 yards if not much better. Best of all, you will be using your rifle to make smoke and noise that results in a delightful LARGE hole in a piece of paper down range.

By the way, the old hide hunters pretty much loaded their cartridges with not much more in equipment than you are using above.

Get started - then start adding reloading equipment.

Oh yeah, clean up. Use ONLY water to clean your bore, hot if you want. Then the cheapest (and in my opinion the best) bore lube is tallow (about $3 for a 5 year supply from Dixie Gun Works). Use liberally. I use olive oil to lube any other moving parts of the gun. To clean your cases use soap and water - if you failed to clean them for several days, pour a little vinegar into the water.

All cheap and easy. All fun. Move towards complexity on down the road if you must.