Modern Sunglasses and NCOWS

[Smokey Three Toes]

OCB, I wasn't not referencing you at all, I was making a smiple statement that IF anyone wanted to take a picture of me on the shooting line they would have to live with my bug eye shooting glasses, whenever someone says can I take your picture after I have shot, I remove the glasses then after the picture is taken I put them back on. I also have bi-focals and to have them put into period correct safety glasses it would be way to expensive. Sorry if you thought I was talking to you, it was a general statement to all.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I'm posting these pics for Dan Topper, you can read the information about them on Dan's post on page five of this topic.

Bill



With side shields....

[Irish Dave]

Been following along and reading this thread. Truth is, I believe this is just one of those situations where "cultures clash," so to speak.

There is a legitimate concern over safety and eye protection.
There is a legitimate concern over authenticity.

Sadly, most of the items that appear authentic lack adequate protection and most of the items that provide adequate protection aren't authentic.

I don't think we're going to find much "middle ground" on which compromise when it comes to eyewear. True, some can afford custom eyewear that may be both period looking and protective. Some may be able to find/create the "shooter's goggles" that some have posted. Others still may be able to make/acquire side shields that will fill the bill along with their regular period-type eyewear.

From where I sit, the compromise is simply in the matter of when and where, IMHO.

On the line: Use what eyewear you believe is necessary to protect your eyesight -- after all, they're YOUR eyes. I don't believe NCOWS has any business mandating what one can or cannot wear at the line when it comes to protecting their eyesight. That should go for shooters (at or near the line), stage workers and anyone else with reason to be in the shooting bay areas.
Off the line: Wrap-style space-goggles &Ray-Bans & other modern BS has no business on your face -- get rid of it right away after leaving the shooting area. This is NCOWS, not B-Western.

That's just a couple of centavos worth from yours truly FWIW. 

[Dan Topper]

I agree with you Irish Dave.  When and where are the important points.

The other point I would make is that safety glasses should be worn, not sunglasses.  I took Evil Roy's class and he had done a test with sunglasses and Wiley X safety glasses.  After shooting them with a shotgun the results were dramatic.  The Wiley X were not penetrated, the sun glasses were distroyed.  My glasses are polycarbonite (SP?), same thing as safety glasses, so the best I can do except contact lenses and safety glasses.  I would not recommend antique glasses, they are not replaceable and I would not consider them safe for the rough environment of WAS/CAS.

Dan Tooper

[Dutch Limbach]

Irish Dave, there is a phrase for what you propose. COMMON SENSE!

A Word of Caution
I think someone should do a little more research on the style of glasses Major 2 posted on before they spend money on them. In a follow up post someone (and I think it was Major) mentioned that the galsses were actually motorcycle goggles. Unfortunately, the first commercial motorcycle didn't go into production until 1894, and that motorcycle was manufactured in Germany. The first motorcycle didn't appear in this country until 1895 when a Frenchman imported one into the US as part of his circus act. The motorcycle didn't come into production in this country until after 1900.

Also, when I Googled "Vintage Goggles" I got to a site of a collector of same. There I found out a couple of interesting things. First, the collector identified the goggles as "Aviator Motorcycle Goggles", and stated they were WW I vintage.

And second, this type of eyewear is popular for Steampunk Costumes. I was unfamiliar with the word "Steampunk" so I goggled it, and a found out that it is a subgenre of fantasy and speculative fiction set in an era or world where steam power is still widely used. It is often set in Victorian era England—but with prominent elements of either science fiction or fantasy, such as fictional technological inventions like those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne. Now check out Steampunk you can find some sites that will give you step by step instructions for making goggles.

So before you buy or make a pair, caveat emptor.

[Dusty Tagalon]

Interesting website for vintage safety glasses. Including railroad style worn in the 1850s.

http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/goggles1.html

Dusty

[Deadeye Don]

I think the intent here is to get as close to "period correct" looking glasses while in and about the shooting area while still maintaining safety.   If you look around there are a number of options available.  Really anything with wire frames and polycarbonate lenses will work.  You can add leather side shields or even plastic ones if you wish.  My smaller frame prescription glasses with polycarbonate lenses will actually accomodate larger plastic shooting glasses over them while on the line.  I can wear both pair while shooting and then take the plastic ones off while not shooting.

While at the national NCOWS shoot there were some pretty wild, clearly modern shooting glasses spotted that really have no place at an NCOWS match IMHO.

I think Irish Daves compromise idea is a good one.  Wear what you want to protect your eyes while shooting or near the shooting line performing posse duties, but then take those suckers off at other times.   I really dont think Bill Proctors intent was to forgo adequate eye protection, but simply for us all to think how we as individuals can make them look a bit more period correct while at the same time protecting the only 2 eyes we will ever have.   Regards.  Deadeye.

[Major 2]

Certainly that was my intent..with the vintage safety glasses..I was looking at the style.
Ida's link  http://www.antiquespectacles.com/  and River City John's http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/goggles1.html
(with respect to Dusty Tagalon repost) clearly show the wide variety of style and fashion.

The Eye Glasses Warehouse shows a photo of goggles use by early open car steam train riders to keep cinders, bugs from their eyes.
http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/1026-21.html

I feel, in respect to eye safety we should side with caution, at the same time there is no reason we can't strive for a Victorian look.
We could argue, modern on the line and remove them elsewhere.
Or perhaps, if we create a market for modern lens in Victorian frames they could be produced.
I feel, in respect to eye safety we should side with caution, at the same time there is no reason we can't strive for a Victorian look.
The line "if you build it they will come " comes to mind, Just like the replica firearm, clothing, boots & leather markets

Steampunk was new to me as well... without knowing it,  I suppose I've enjoyed that mentality myself to an extent, perhaps we all have.
After all isn't NCOWS about striving for a better PC persona?

[Pitspitr]

I think Irish Daves compromise idea is a good one.  Wear what you want to protect your eyes while shooting or near the shooting line performing posse duties, but then take those suckers off at other times.   I really dont think Bill Proctors intent was to forgo adequate eye protection, but simply for us all to think how we as individuals can make them look a bit more period correct while at the same time protecting the only 2 eyes we will ever have.

I agree. But I might add, If you see me away from the shooting area in my WylieX's, please politely remind me. Believe me, I don't want to be seen wearing them in that situation any more that you want to see me that way.  For those of us who wear glasses all day, every day, it's pretty easy to forget we have them sitting on our nose, let alone which pair we're wearing. If I'm wearing my safety glasses away from the shooting area, I just had a brain fart and I want reminded and there's no point in being rude about the reminder.

[Deadeye Don]

Interesting website for vintage safety glasses. Including railroad style worn in the 1850s.

http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/goggles1.html

Dusty

Great website Dusty.      

PS see above.

[Black Powder]

Fine discussion.  Been wondering about this myself as I'm a coke-bottle glasses wearer my whole life.

I'd bookmarked River City's frames for future reference.  Most of the period correct lenses are too small for me to feel comfortable with for protection while shooting.  I've gone to wearing contacts so I can wear protective goggles while shooting.  I take them off when done shooting.  After reading some of the freak accidents reported here, though, I think I'm going to go back to wearing glasses so I have something over my eyes all the time.

I just can't afford another pair of prescription glasses.

Irish Dave's perspective seems well balanced to me and Pitspitr rightly points out that those of us who wear corrective lenses everyday don't give it much thought after we put 'em on; if things look clear, we're fine but we're likely to forget how we look to others.

BP

[River City John]

Getting back to one of the specific points mentioned in this thread-

At the recent NCOWS National there were several shooters seen wearing more modern sunglasses after the day's shooting while at their leasure in the primitive campsite. This perhaps was the most glaring inconsistency that OCB mentioned, particularly in knowing that some of those very individuals have taken great pains, not to mention expense, to try to achieve total immersion in the period.

I know, as mentioned, that their's was simply a case of being so used to wearing shades to conserve sensitive shooting eyes that it was a case of 'authenticity myopia'.

I have settled on modern eyewear for shooting glasses that also serve me for everyday use. They have the largest area of protective coverage while maintaining at least a semi-old timey look, and I don't have to carry around or change multiple pairs of spectacles. I have too much crap as it is that I just can't live without when packing for these multiple-day events. I do not think about adding more period-type eyewear simply because in the average picture they are close enough to a period look that they do not stand out, or at least are 'read' by the viewer as being right. If I am having a portrait made then I have some more period eyewear to play with.


I have had fool's luck, though, in that I have plastic sideshields that I can slip over the sides but usually don't think to do it. (I know, . . . .you can get in line behind my eye doctor, my wife. . .)

As has been mentioned, this topic isn't about what you wear for eye safety while shooting. Using modern safety glasses goes under the same philosophy as why OCB uses that modern bazooka of a digital camera instead of a period wet plate camera on a nice brass and wood tripod. You can't get the same results unless you go modern.

So, if one thinks of it, and I think of bringing them, just a friendly request to change my spectacles if you're taking a picture and my usual specs stand out too much. Or just have me remove the glasses and tuck them out of sight for that exposure.
RCJ         

[Deadeye Don]

I personally think that any of the wire framed glasses are just fine and close enough to the look of period correct that they pass muster.   IMHO both of the glasses in the pictures of RCJ are good to go. 

[River City John]

Two examples of period eyewear from my family collection.

For me I feel that true period eyewear is just plain too flimsy for moderately robust use on the firing line even with shooting glasses worn over them. Modern replicas are better. And more easily replaced.

It's hard enough for me to aim without having to contort my head angle so that a scant 3/4" area of usable lens is aligned with my eyeball, the rear sights, the front sight, the target. . .

RCJ

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

RCJ,

Here is a recent nifty recent acquisition from an antique store in Baltimore - got them for $12.00, not something I can pull off again any time soon. It's even harder to line up on sights wearing these puppies though when you get a sight picture it's a good one as you can imagine.

Of note, these are the third pair of period 'sun glasses/sporting glasses' I've seen that were pinned together - no screws anywhere, but they're pinned so-as to be impossible to replace lenses or bows. Throw-away or disposable would be incorrect to describe this construction method, though they aren't meant to be changed or messed with. With a bit of restorative cleaning-up they'll be keepers.



YMH&OS,

Brass

p.s. Frenchie - if you read this please PM me so we can plan for some seafood, beers and old west convo on the Chesapeake Bay on an upcoming week-end. I'm in D.C. until December.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

RCJ..................

The pair of eye glasses you are wearing in the first photo are basically what I wear, sans the eye shields, which I am going to add prior to our next monthly match..

I like the phrase you used as to "not stand out" that would be a good norm for shooting glasses used in NCOWS. It was disheartening to see some of our NCOWS members wearing their modern wraps-a-rounds in the primitive camping area....

Maybe that would be something that can be addressed by the match director in future national and regional shoots.......along with parking our vehicles in a central location (somewhat like the Mountain Men rendezvous are done), away from the primitive area once we have our camps set up, (I was guilty of this one at the national shoot also.)

Bill

[River City John]

Of note, these are the third pair of period 'sun glasses/sporting glasses' I've seen that were pinned together - no screws anywhere

Brass et al.

When looking for modern eyewear find the most suitable modern lens shape that your optometrist can put a polycarbonate lens into at a reasonable cost.
Then, as Mr. Brass, hunt up the thrift and Goodwill stores where they usually have baskets of junk eyeglasses. You're looking for the best old-timey looking wire bows that you can unscrew that little hinge screw and change them out. Et viola! You have 'imagineered' a respctable spectacle.(insert groans here.)
This is usually a fairly simple, and fun, quest in that gilt or silvered frames have been common since eyeglasses were invented.
Besides, there are ALWAYS happy little finds to spend a little pocket loot on. Happy accidents.
The eyeglasses in the first pic that are my everyday glasses originally had more modern-styled bows that I didn't like. Found a pair of '50's frames with one lens missing and a bent frame that I scavenged the nice bows off of.

[Delmonico]

My non'shooting glasses came from Wal-Mart, but are some name brand one can get almost anywhere.  They look like blued steel but are titanium and after over 2 years have neve needed to be reshaped, even after they were attacked by a 50 pound Lab puppy.



I am a throw back, I use glass lenes, but modern ones meet safety glasses specs.  I had one pair of plastic lenes, will never do that again for a day to day pair.  They built up static, despite the fact I used the anti-static junk on them.  Try riding a four wheeler on a dry dirt road with static cling in you glasses, often have nothing but a bandanna to wipe them with, scratch-resistant coatings, yeah right.

Have 2 pir of gold 19th century frames, went through about 200 pairs a friend had for sale, found two wide enough for my face.  I need to get lenes in them sometime, but will only be used for special reasons because my lenes are to thick to use glass in them, so they would have to have the poly carbonate lenses put in.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I won't criticize anyone here; this is just an observation.

As many have said, what you wear when lead goes downrange is limited only by the shooter's wallet, but safer is better.  I have been blessed with damn good eyesight - it's the ONLY part of me that still works as advertised  - and I intend to keep my good eyesight as long as possible by having VERY safe eyewear when shooting!    But at 57, my last eye test (in Feb. 08) I still have 20-15 (far distance) in my R eye, and 20-20 in my left.  (Yeah - I'm proud.  )  The rest of the story is that my arms are not long enough to read anymore. 

I did like the way Rowdy, French Jack, and Texas Jack set things up at the recent NCOWS Nationals, with a marked area for "modern stuff," coolers, etc. and then near the stages was as Period Correct as possible.  Made for better photos, that way.

[Fox Creek Kid]

This has been an interesting topic. Personally, I think eyewear is best left alone and left to people's own judgement. After all, eyewear is easily removed for any period style photo. If we all have to wear 100% authentic eyewear then why not dictate that everyone must use real black powder(?).  After all, no one used Titegroup in the 1800's.    (Sound of crickets chirping).