Comparing the Original 1876 with the Uberti 1876 - PICS

[Fox Creek Kid]

Griz, any chance of posting some Chaparral internal photos as well? Which of the two, Uberti & Chaparral, is the more authentic?

[Grizzly Adams]

Griz, any chance of posting some Chaparral internal photos as well? Which of the two, Uberti & Chaparral, is the more authentic?

Hi, Kid.   Welcome back!

That is a great question, and I don't know the answer.   From what I read, the Chaparral is supposed to be the most "authentic" of the two, a least in respect to copying the original design internally.  What sets the two apart in terms of "authenticity" (I am told) is the use of the one piece firing pin design - as per the original.  I don't know, as I don't have a Chaparral to compare!    My personal opinion is that it doesn't really make that much difference, both seem to work just fine!   If you look through my pics, you will see that Uberti has changed their design - at least the design as executed in the 1873 - to use the same type of key to retain the firing pin as in the original design, albiet modified to accommodate the two piece, recoil spring firing pin.

I have only had my hands on one Chaparral, and it was a fine shooting arm indeed.  However, the owner was not wild about me taking a screw driver to it!   Maybe someone will post some pics that compare the original Winnie to the Chaparral.  I would like to see that myself!

[Grizzly Adams]

The saga continues!  

Spent the morning doing a bit of cleanup on the inside of the frame.  I removed a number of nasty little burrs left over from the machining process.  They did not seem to be causing any problems, but I am picky!   Worst where around the slot that the carrier arm passes up through when the action is opened.

Next I decided to remove the magazine end cap to make sure the inside of the magazine tube is clean.  Really dreaded this one.  Uberti uses a threaded plug, and they can be a bear to get off!  I was surprised that this one unscrewed without any difficulty.  Bonzo must have missed this one!



Mag tube was actually fairly clean.  FWIW, Winchester never used a threaded plug on any of the 1876 variations.  They used 4 different types, but all were unthreaded and secured with a screw through the magazine tube and the plug.  2 types use a lip that was captured by a slot in the end of the barrel.  Like these:




Also note that the underside of the barrrel is relieved by having a rounded channel machined into the underside to accommodate the magazine tube.  The Uberti shares this feature.  If you look closely at the top pic of the Uberti, you can see it.

Hope this has been of interest.

[Hoof Hearted]

Grizz

I can verify that the toggle links that Winchester Bob makes and sells fit in the Chaparral very well (in fact they are a real good way to eliminate excess headspace). These are billed to be exactly like the original Winchester ones in every way. It would follow and be safe to assume that all related parts must be pretty close, with the exception of hand fitting.

I think based on the poor hammer channel (hammer to tang slot fit) that is so typical of the Chaparrals. One could assume that just like in the 1873 Colt SAA replicas by ASM, that they copied the original to the best of their ability. With "copy" and "ability" being a key factor.

It was purported over on the SASS wire by a Chaparral spokesperson that they are an "exact" copy. Also that CNC machinery is used to insure this fact. But...........that only means repeatability not correct or exactly the same.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Has anyone done a side by side with an original/Uberti/Chaparral to confirm which is the most authentic?

[john boy]

From what I read, the Chaparral is supposed to be the most "authentic" of the two, a least in respect to copying the original design internally.

Was talking with Nick Ecker about 'how the heck are they making any money with the Chaparral Warranty work'?  His reply was ... 'We are making a substantial amount of dollars selling replacement parts to owners of original '76's

Another item:
---   Chaparral has changed the retractor pin from the familiar straight sided one to a fluted pin that needs to be driven in.  Why?  Don't have a clue.

[Grizzly Adams]

Has anyone done a side by side with an original/Uberti/Chaparral to confirm which is the most authentic?

No one that I know of has done this - yet.  John Boy, this sounds like a good project for you!

[Hobie]

+1

+2

[john boy]

Grizzly - Yes, it would be a neat project but I do not own an original or a Uberti.  A possible method would be a volunteer that owns one of each and then an offline co-ordination for each to take specific pictures for each given part.  Then the pictures would be combined by one person - revisions if needed and then make a summary post.  I have a picture of all the internal parts for an original
ORI'll be the volunteer to act like the magazine writers do it:
One volunteer each, sends me an original and a Uberti - of course the rifles remain in my gun safe for my efforts.  I'll gladly pay shipping!

[Grizzly Adams]

I'll be the volunteer to act like the magazine writers do it:
One volunteer each, sends me an original and a Uberti - of course the rifles remain in my gun safe for my efforts.  I'll gladly pay shipping!

Your a prince, John!

[Grizzly Adams]

Ok, time to see if I can get this back together!

First, I wanted to mention the bolt face, and the cartridge lip or rim that seems to be missing on some of the Chaparral rifles.  This lip acts as a support for the bottom of the rim, and is part of the original design and it is very important to the proper function of the action.

Here are a couple of pics showing first the original and second the Uberti bolt from my rifle.  Notice the lip on the botton of the bolt face opposite the extractor.




After disassembly, I spent some time cleaning up after the boys in Italy.   There were some burrs left over in this area, and I smoothed those up.  The worst was in the opening for the carrier arm.



Next I deburred and polished the carrier using a flat surface and a diamond steel plate.



The next step was to lighten up the carrier and lever springs a bit.  This is pretty commonly done on the 1873 to make them go quicker, but it is also important as the heavy springs will cause rapid wear on the lever cam.  By the way, it also happens with the originals.  Speed is not an issue with this rifle, so I just cut them down a little and polished them up.   I did not lighten the hammer spring, but may later on.



I began reassembly by putting the firing pin and coil spring into the bolt.



Bolt up and through the frame.



Stricker (back half of firing pin assembly) is inserted through frame and into bolt.  Locking key is installed.



Link pin drifted in left to right.



More later!

[Grizzly Adams]

Part 3

Carrier is returned to the mortise.



Carrier arm is installed next.



....and the lever.



Now we are ready to install the timing springs for the carrier and lever.  Given that Italian screws for these springs are so "soft", I thought I would replace them with the nifty American made replacements!   VTI sells them. The American made item is on the left.



Installing the springs.




Now the links!



Check for function, and install the side plates.



Now the dust cover:  The Uberti dust cover uses a spring loaded ball bearing to keep the cover open.  The original used a curved flat spring.  Take care when putting this back, as that little ball will take off on you - ask me how I know!



Once you have the ball on the spring and the dust cover forward past the check ball, you can install the dust cover retractor boss.  This little item is captured by the back edge of the extractor as the action is opened and moves the dust cover to the open position.



We are done   Time to go shoot!

For those of you that have these rifles, and are reluctant to take them apart, I hope this will be of some help.  These are really pretty simple designs and can be worked on easily as long as you have good fitting screw drivers.  They were after all, designed to function reliably  under harsh conditions, with a little reasonable care, and simple maintenance, by folks on the frontier of this continent.

[Ken41]

A friend of mine has an original stripped 1876 receiver. I was talking to him about it and mentioned that the Chaparral was suppose to be an exact reproduction. I dissembled my Chaparral and installed all of the internal parts into the original. All the parts fit. The Chaparral screws have the diameter and screw pitch as the original. The only areas of hand fitting would be the Chaparral side covers need a little more relief at the rear to drop into the action, and the sear/hammer needs adjusted.

He talked to Chaparral and found the it was cheaper to just buy a complete rifle to get the parts that he needs. He got three rifles, has
50 cal barrels on order from Badger, and is going to rebuild the original and the two other Chaparrals to 50-95. I am pretty sure that he is going to build them with a shorter barrel, and a short magazine tube. I think that the holdup is getting the barrels.

My understanding of the toggle links, are, that the pins, front, center, and rear are not suppose to carry any of the rearward thrust of the bolt. It is the rounded portions of the links and receiver that carry the load.

Ken
NRA Life
Southwest PA

[Hobie]

My understanding of the toggle links, are, that the pins, front, center, and rear are not suppose to carry any of the rearward thrust of the bolt. It is the rounded portions of the links and receiver that carry the load.

Yep, the pins just hold the parts in relation to one another.  It is neat and simple. 

[Joe Lansing]

    Reminds me of the trap door Springfield. The later models were designed to fire safely with a broken or missing hinge pin. The front of the breechblock tucked under the receiver hinge very nicely.

[Poohgyrr]

Thanks much for all this info.  Don't have one "yet" but the Uberti is on my list, just have to decide on which caliber...  (HAH!  So much for my decision not to get any new calibers to reload for...     )

In the meantime, I may watch Crossfire Trail again and look closer at that Centennial.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Grizzly , I have not heard of the company VTI. Can you post a link  or an address to get a catalog. I may have been there but dont recognise the name. Thanks  Chuck

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizzly , I have not heard of the company VTI. Can you post a link  or an address to get a catalog. I may have been there but dont recognise the name. Thanks  Chuck

Hi, Chuck.

Here's the link to VTI

http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=106&cat=Rifles

[Chuck 100 yd]

Thanks pard !!  I had it in my favorites, just didn`t recognise the initials.

[walter1876]

Grizzly, I like your comparisons post, very interesting. Looking closely it seems the links on the Uberti have a major design flaw. They have failed to recognize Winchesters design of transmitting force from bolt to frame. The link pins on the Winchester are not designed to take the force, look close at your picture and the Winchester links have notches above the link pins that marry together in the firing position. When in the firing position, the force is transmitted from bolt to link to link (thru the notched area) to frame. Because the link notches are not present in the Uberti they require larger holes and pins to withstand bolt forces. This explains why Uberti pins often fail and brings doubt that the Uberti action is stronger than the original Winchester as some have claimed. Thank you.