Henry Big Boy questions and comments...

[brassboz]

Ever since I saw this video on YouTube, and handled a rifle in a store, the Henry Big Boy has been big on my list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZaSl-K_mI&feature=related

I mean, if the Rifleman uses a Henry Big Boy, then that's got to be the rifle for me.

Anyway, my questions:

1)  Will the button rifling of the Henry Big Boy be acceptable for repeated fire of lead-cast bullets?
2)  Is there a problem in using black powder with the Henry Big Boy?
3)  What's the experience in cleaning or field-stripping the Henry Big Boy, or do folks just open the chamber and clean from the muzzle end, without disassembling the rifle?
4)  Does anyone use bore butter on lever action rifles used for both smokeless and blackpowder shooting?

Thanks.

[Sod Buster]

Ever since I saw this video on YouTube, and handled a rifle in a store, the Henry Big Boy has been big on my list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZaSl-K_mI&feature=related

I mean, if the Rifleman uses a Henry Big Boy, then that's got to be the rifle for me.

The rirle used in the Rifleman TV show (staring Chuck Connors) was not the Henry Big Boy.  It was a Winchester '92.

[brassboz]

The rirle used in the Rifleman TV show (staring Chuck Connors) was not the Henry Big Boy.  It was a Winchester '92.

I know that, was just funnin',  but in that video, it looked like a Henry Big Boy.

[Major 2]

The Henry Arms Co. tweaked more than a few CAS types by using creative advertising to sell the HENRY name as the true
decedent of the Original.
  the Chief cook & bottle washer at Henry Arms co. also use some rather misleading press to claim the Henry Big Boy was SASS approved, when "at the time" it had not been"  or even "to that point" presented for acceptance'

It was eventually submitted of course and SASS approved it... However NCOWS has not, and probably won't.

Lou Imperato was instrumental in purchasing Iver Johnson's arms plant in Massachusetts in 1973, where he manufactured the COLT 2nd Generation Black Powder Series.

Imperato, later founded Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. in 1993 , which produced the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder line at the very same address in Brooklyn, NY that the Henry Arms are produced today.

Actually the Henry 22's and even the Big Boy are reasonably nice turned out firearms , American Made a + in a dwendling American market share, where old & trusted names are fall by the wayside of being sold overseas I.E. Winchester, Ithica & once awhile back Smith & Wesson.
I give Imperato credit for that...

Would I buy one ?  probably not....I have two Henry Replica's .... if Henry Arms Co. USA produced a true 1860's Replica, I'd would look again though.

[Deadeye Don]

The Henry Big Boy might as well be called the Charlie big boy for all the resemblance it has to the original Henry rifle.  You are right Major,  NCOWS will never ever approve the Henry (charlie) Big Boy as it did not exist pre 1900.  That being said, if someone likes the rifle, buy it.  Regards. Deadeye.


"The Henry Big Boy isn't the rifle from the Old West, but it's (in my opinion) what that rifle should have been."

HUH?   

[brassboz]

Thanks for all the replies.  I sure like the rifle in terms of fit and finish.  Only problems I have with is are:

1.  I had to take some padded pliers and bend the rear buckhorn sight into proper viewing position.
2.  The rifle will not seat factory ammunition, even by hand.  In other words, the rifle is inoperable and I cannot fire the gun.
3.  I purchased the rifle from a gun store that will likely not honor a return of a defective product, although this remains to be determined; will find out on Monday.
4.  I have this sinking feeling Henry will "work on the gun" but not replace it with another out-of-the-box properly working firearm.  From another post I read, they might end up grinding away at the gun to get it jerry-rigged enough to feed.  But I cannot say for certain, just a bad feeling I'm beginning to get.

Like I said, I'll see; maybe find out on Monday.

[brassboz]

"The Henry Big Boy isn't the rifle from the Old West, but it's (in my opinion) what that rifle should have been."

HUH?   

By "should have been", I mean it would have been nice if the historical Henry had the strength to handle more powerful ammo and perhaps a forestock to keep from burning one's hand.  Whether or not one likes the modern Henry Big Boy, fact is, it's a stronger rifle (when a person has one that's operable and not the manufacturing "squawk" I had the misfortune to end up with).

[Major 2]

  "I purchased the rifle from a gun store that will likely not honor a return of a defective product "

First , I believe you have every right to expect your new Firearm ( be it a Henry Big Boy or whatever ) to function as intended and function safely. Use that SAFELY Issue as your trump card, when dealing with your dealer....
Second , last I understood, Henry Arms Customer Service was responsive and helpful, if it is a factory error mechanical issue you should have no problem. I heard they replace defective arms.
If on the other hand it was buggered by tinkering or poor smithing then you may be in the soup, as it were.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I don't know if you noticed, but that guy in the video is not actually firing that rifle. There is no smoke coming out the front and no shells being ejected. In fact, I don't think he's even pulling the trigger, I think he is only working the action. The gun Chuck Connors used in the Rifleman was a Winchester '92 that had been rigged up by the propman to fire without pulling the trigger. There was a screw threaded into the lever and the screw protruded far enough that it tripped the trigger every time the lever was closed. That's how he was able to fire it that fast for those sequences. When the script called for him to fire it regularly they removed he screw.

I can't tell if that rifle in the video is a Big Boy or not, it might be.

The historical Henry did not have wood on the front because of the need for the tab on the follower to slide along the open slot on the underside of the magazine. Winchester changed that in 1866 when the King side loading gate was added and there was no longer a need to compress the magazine spring by hand. Modern steels had not yet been invented that could take modern high pressure cartridges, and the toggle link action was not strong enough to take them anyway. The first Henrys had an iron frame, later production was a bronze alloy commonly referred to as gunmetal. It was not until the 1873 model came out that Winchester changed over to an iron frame for the more powerful 44-40 round, and they eventually went to a steel frame. Sorry, I don't know when. It was not until the John Browning designed 1892 came along that a lever gun existed that was strong enough to take truly high powered 'pistol' ammo, but even that had to wait until strong enough steel was developed a bit later. Wishing is one thing, historical reality is another. I suppose it would be fun to wish there were airplanes in the old west too.

The Big Boy came up for approval as a SASS main match rifle twice. The first time I told my TG that I was voting against it. I had no problem with the rifle, I detested their advertising and the untrue claims they made. The second time it came up for approval I changed my vote and told my TG that if folks wanted to shoot a Henry in CAS, who was I to stand in their way. By the way, their advertising has not changed. If I wanted an American made rifle for the purposes you describe, I would buy a Marlin. The Henry action is very similar to a Marlin anyway and the Marlin design has been around since the 1880s in one form or another.

I would be very upset with a rifle that would not chamber the correct ammo. I have read that Henry customer service is very responsive to customer complaints. I am sure they will make your rifle right.

[Arcey]

The 'casual shooter' I mentioned previously was at the match yesterday. I was the RO when he was shooting.

I noticed two things:

At times the thing would eject an empty during cycling but wouldn't pick up a fresh cartridge when he closed the action. He'd drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

More predominately, the carrier would toss a cartridge up with enough force to throw the case head a fair ways out of the ejection port. His first attempt to close the action only aligned the cartridge with the chamber. He'd have to hit it again to chamber the round.

My scorer thought he was short-stroking the thing but standing right with him and watching him shoot I can say that wasn't the case. He worked the lever through the full cycle.

I have a copy of 'The Rifleman' theme in my collection of old western music. The vid clip fits well with it.

As Don said, if that's what one wants, buy it.

[brassboz]

Whew, finally returned the inoperable rifle today, but got hit with a 15% restocking fee.  I'm not happy about that, and the gun store owner appears to be stuck with getting this fixed himself and maybe has to sell it.  I had figured he could return the defective gun to his distributor, but maybe not.

Henry's customer service was up to standards and they did offer to look at the gun and pay for shipping.

Still, if the gun store owner could not cycle a factory .357 into the chamber, and if I could not do the same with a factory .38 special, then that means this rifle must have left the factory without ever being test-fired.  Is that not a correct conclusion?  I mean, we couldn't even push these rounds all the way into the chamber by hand.

[Deadeye Don]

Whew, finally returned the inoperable rifle today, but got hit with a 15% restocking fee.  I'm not happy about that, and the gun store owner appears to be stuck with getting this fixed himself and maybe has to sell it.  I had figured he could return the defective gun to his distributor, but maybe not.

Henry's customer service was up to standards and they did offer to look at the gun and pay for shipping.

Still, if the gun store owner could not cycle a factory .357 into the chamber, and if I could not do the same with a factory .38 special, then that means this rifle must have left the factory without ever being test-fired.  Is that not a correct conclusion?  I mean, we couldn't even push these rounds all the way into the chamber by hand.

Under what theory or practice of business did your FFL charge you a "restocking" fee for a gun that obviously had issues out of the box?  I think I would be looking for a new FFL also.   That is outrageous.   

[Major 2]

So your out about $70 - $90 ?  
In your case, he sold you a defective piece... he should not have restocked, it he should have sent it to Henry Arms...
If He sells it to another unsuspecting customer   that is fraud.


I had a Sporting Goods store I frequented that began to advertise a restocking fee... I never got stuck but then I need not return to the store either.
His business failed about 10 years ago...

[brassboz]

I'm out about $90 plus, I think. 

On a humorous note, when I had gone to a shooting range and first discovered the rifle would not chamber ammunition, the range owner refused to give me a rain check or refund my $10 range fee.  Haha.  There's no winning.

I think the whole firearms industry could use a bit of an overhaul.  Manufacturers need to take more pride in craftsmanship, and gun store and range operators need to give better customer service.  Of all product categories I buy, firearms come with the lowest customer service and worst purchasing experiences.  (I mean, even a used car salesman will at least be friendly and smile at you when he makes the deal.)

[St. George]

A 'restocking fee' is ridiculous - and you should report that dealer to the manufacturer, even after the fact.

If the manufacturer offered to pay shipping - you were out nothing but the time it would take to take the piece to the manufacturer's designated shipper and slap on their label.

As a private citizen - you 'can' ship to the manufacturer for repair with no problem - you don't need an FFL holder to do it for you, and add on his charges.

They'll either send you a shipping label - or will reimburse your cost upon reciept of the invoice - 'and' will ship the piece to your home of record upon repair.

Find a different dealer - this one has no ethics, and views you as a wallet.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Deadeye Don]

Brassboz, 

Dont be turned off to gun dealers just because you got a turkey.  There are plenty of reputable FFLs out there that would treat you right and love to get your business.  What your dealer did to you was not right at all.  I would go in an "request" my money back and if he doesnt do it,  call the BBB and Henry.   Regards.  Deadeye.

[brassboz]

All I can say is the wonderful Mr. Imperato of Henry Firearms stepped in and fixed everyone involved; excellent service.

Restores my faith in Henry Firearms.