DUMB RULES

[Missouri Marshal]

I personally think this is one of the dumbest rules we have in SASS.  I will admit I have a personal interest in this one.  It has bitten me several times over the years.  I just can't see how an empty round can be a safety problem.  We walk away from the line every match with 10 of them in our pistols.  Why is it worse to have an empty in a long gun with the action open?  I have heard the statement " Well you don't know if it is a live round or an empty."  That is correct so if, when discovered, it is a live round, assess the penalty.  If it is a fired round, no call.  So what do you think?  If you think it should be a penalty please explain how that makes anything safer.  Are we trying to make the shooter stop after firing a long gun visually inspect it or clear it on the clock?  I jus don't see how penalizing for a fired round makes anything safer.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Would be a heck of a way to find out it was a live round,,to have to watch someone die to realize it, yes ?

Some 'game' issues with SASS folks might wished changed,,,,but,,,I would NEVER pretion for a lesser safty standard just becauses its a personal inconvience.....you can never,,NEVER ,,be to cautious ...and safe.

These are 'real' guns.

Marshal Deadwood

[Sagebrush Burns]

You cannot tell from a distance (five feet or more) whether it is a live or dead round.  An empty carrier is crystal clear.

[Advertising]

[Cyrille]

How many time have you heard or read about an"empty" round (or gun) be it rifle, revolver or what-have-you going off?
 "Well that's too many." to praphrase the Wolf Brand Chili commercial.
  I don't believe that we have too many saftety rules or silly safety rules when it comes to firearms safety!
 A bullet doesn't care who or what it hits but we sure should. I'd hate to return from a shoot knowing that I "killed"someone's transportation home or worse, even though it is considered an "accident"

 

[Camille Eonich]

Hey MM, how come you keep coming up with empties left on the carrier?  Do you have an ejector that is getting worn or something?

[Doc Shapiro]

I don't like it when applied to shotguns, especially SxS's.

[Arcey]

Shotguns.  Fired dry ‘n restaged empty.  If there’s an empty in it or not and some one crosses the muzzles the stage writer is an idiot and so is the shooter for followin’ the defective instructions.  With my club, and those I shoot at as a guest, it doesn’t happen.  Rifles, the same.  One doesn’t sweep one’s self or others regardless of the status of the firearm.

Pistols, as MM said, we shoot ‘em dry ‘n holster, hammer down on a fired cartridge.  I can’t remember a time when we kicked the empty brass out on the clock before we go to the unloadin’ table.

More ‘n more our instructions say make rifle and/or shotgun safe.  When a rifle has its lever down and action open, it’s safe even if there’s a live round on the carrier.  When a ’97 has the action open, it’s safe whether it has something on the carrier or not..  When a dual exhaust shotgun is busted open it ain’t gonna shoot, period.  Neither will a pistol with the hammer down over a spent cartridge, and again, we do that on every stage.

Safety is one thing.  Goin’ overboard is another.  I suppose we all could dry fire ‘n eliminate all possibilities.  No live ammo allowed………

[Missouri Marshal]

Hey MM, how come you keep coming up with empties left on the carrier?  Do you have an ejector that is getting worn or something?

Not sure, the action is always fully open but every now and then when I go to pick up the rifle after shooting the stage there will be an empty setting on the carrier.  It was kind of weird at Round Up.  Prior to shooting the last stage, stage 5, Longhorn Louie, Beartooth and myself were talking about this very subject.  I go and shoot the stage.  Was the best one I had shot all day.  On that stage one of the posse would move your rifle to the unloading table due to forward movement.  As I was headed to the unloading table Little Rooster walked up with an empty case and said that it was in my rifle when it got to the unloading table.  I didn't argue it, heck most of the time I'm the one who finds it and assess myself the penalty but I still think it's a dumb rule. It was just weird since we had just been talking about it.  I'm jus glad we were not talkin about ADs or dropped guns.  Whew!   I'm goin ta put a new ejector in it but the old one looks fine so I don't know if that is the problem or somethin else.  As far as the folks who think I'm tryin ta sacrifice safety for time.....well they don't know me and they know even less about firearms.

[Wymore Wrangler]

Missouri Marshal, well pardner if your calling it on yourself, that just shows your one to ride the river with....

[Doc Shapiro]

Not sure, the action is always fully open but every now and then when I go to pick up the rifle after shooting the stage there will be an empty setting on the carrier.

Are ya shootin a Marlin by chance?  I've seen it happen with those and '97's.  The cause is always the same. 

Shooter is moving the gun and at the same time opening the action.  The movement of the gun overrides the ejection and the case never leaves the gun, or the action doesn't get opened that last little bit and the ejector never has a chance to do its thing.

[Gold Canyon Kid]

Even Winter Range modified the rule for rounds left on the carrier.  You only got dinged if you showed up at the unloading table and released control of the gun-provided it was the last gun shot with the problem.  The words in the Winter Range written rule summary in the shooters book, which mirrored the latest from the RO committee, was changed in the shooters meeting and at the Posse Marshall introduction for the first stage shot.

[Missouri Marshal]

Are ya shootin a Marlin by chance?  I've seen it happen with those and '97's.  The cause is always the same. 

Shooter is moving the gun and at the same time opening the action.  The movement of the gun overrides the ejection and the case never leaves the gun, or the action doesn't get opened that last little bit and the ejector never has a chance to do its thing.

Yep it's a Marlin. 94CBC.  Figured I wuz gona have ta start cycling the action one more time after the last round.  It would cost me a little time but not as much as a 10 second minor safety.

Missouri Marshal, well pardner if your calling it on yourself, that just shows your one to ride the river with....

Thanks Pard.  I am an ROII and I run the timer at allot of shoots.  Even though I don't agree with the rule I still have to enforce it when I am the RO.  If I have to enforce it on another pard then I  better enforce it on myself.  Ya got ta practice what ya preach.

[Doc Shapiro]

Yep it's a Marlin. 94CBC.  Figured I wuz gona have ta start cycling the action one more time after the last round.  It would cost me a little time but not as much as a 10 second minor safety.
 

Just make sure to completely open it, and briskly, before you take it off your shoulder.  That should take care of it.

[Missouri Marshal]

Just make sure to completely open it, and briskly, before you take it off your shoulder.  That should take care of it.

Thanks Doc, hopefully that will take care of my problem but I still think it's a dumb rule.

[Marshal Deadwood]

 

[Camille Eonich]

Im just safe. Period. No chances taken, no exceptions made. Ever.

I see a phrase, 'minor safty violation.' Im not sure I understand this. What is a 'major safty violation' then?'  Were you get enough minor points to graduate to a Major ?

Marshal Deadwood   *Why IKE ! I KNOW ! We'll have a spellin' contest!.... P A R T I T I O N 

If you're planning on shooting a SASS match then you should probably read these first.

http://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php

[Marauder]

Since we have good rules about where the gun is pointed and we are to keep the action open except under careful rules for the loading and unloading tables, I too think the rule is unnecessary.  As you say, if it is found to be a loaded round, then have a penalty if it is not cleared before the next gun.

So an open action (can't fire), with an empty round (can't fire) pointed in a safe direction (safe if fired) is not a problem to me as there are at the very least, two levels of safety.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Ok, you guys win.

Please allow me to retain the good sence to treat ever firearm as though it is loaded at all times.

Marshal Deadwood   *why I know Ike! We shall have a spellin' contest and lets TIME it !!

[Arcey]

We have won, more than once.  We win at every safe shoot.

Deadwood, at least two of us have been doin’ this for years.  We haven’t shot anyone yet ‘n it’s highly unlikely we ever will.  Things that could contribute to that possibility we simply don’t do.  We were taught well, up close ‘n in person, hands on, by people who organized matches before we started and we refined their instruction and advice.

Could someone get shot?  They could at any shoot.  We had an shooter once that refused to follow instructions.  He was a new shooter but he’d handled guns for years ‘n knew what he was doin’, accordin’ to him.  When he put a hole thru a hay bale and the clipboard holdin’ the stage instructions, he was thrown off the range.  Never been back.

Have you shot a match?  Been to an ROI or ROII class yet?

[Marshal Deadwood]

Edited

Marshal Deadwood