Is there such a thing as an "M1860 N.M. Infantry Rifle"?

[djossi@yahoo.com]

I'd like to preface my question with the admission that I'm a newbie. Therefore, I'm hoping you'll be kind enough not to flame me if I say something patently ridiculous. Everybody's got to start somewhere. 

My questions:

1. I've come across sources that indicate the correct designation for the initial Spencer infantry rifle, commonly referred to as the "Model 1860" or "M1860", is actually the "Army Model". As the next two versions were termed the Model 1865 and Model 1867 to distinguish them from the initial version--all three shared the same patent year of 1860--the M1860 designation slipped into usage in order to keep things simple.  Is this correct?

2. Are the five different versions of the Spencer military rifle, in order of introduction, as follows:

     -  Navy
     -  Army
     -  Model 1865
     -  Model 1867
     -  New Model

I restricted it to rifle models in order to exclude the Canadian and Burnside carbine versions.

3. Can an animal such as a "Spencer M1860 N.M. Infantry Rifle" exist? If the assumptions I've listed above are correct, then the M1860 model was the first model introduced by Spencer while the New Model was the fifth and final. Therefore, it doesn't seem possible that a given rifle be considered both.

I'm this question as I just came across an auction for a rifle described that way.

Thanks!

[Sean Thornton]

The best book on the Spencer Rifle/Carbine is the one by Roy Marcot "Spencer Repeating Firearms". In his book he refers to Model 1860 Spencer Navy Rifles, Model 1860 Spencer Army Rifles, Model 1860 Spencer carbines, Model 1865 Spencer Carbines and Rifles, Burnside Model 1865 Spencer Carbines, Sporting Rifles, 1871 altered Spencer Carbine Conversions(2 band) Model 1867 Spencer Army and Navy Rifles(very few were made) New Model Spencer Carbines, New Model Spencer Army and navy Rifles in 1868 again very few made. Unfortunately for the Spencer design it was a dead end rifle and could not be adapted as a repeater for larger cartridges.

Not sure if that answers you question or not. The Marcot book is considered the best Spencer book out there but hard to find and expensive. Hope that helps.

[djossi@yahoo.com]

Sean,

Your response is a perfect example of, "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime."  You not only answered my question, you gave me a resource that I can use to answer my questions going forward. I just purchased Marcot's book from Amazon where there are two more copies available at $60 a pop.

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[djossi@yahoo.com]

Sean,

By the way, the conclusion that I reached based on the information you provided is that there is no such thing as an "M1860 N.M. Infantry Rifle" as, IMHO, the term encompasses both the Model 1860 Spencer Army Rifle and the New Model Spencer Army Rifle.

Thanks again!

[Sean Thornton]

Glad I was able to help. I use my Spencer for Civil War reenacting and just got back from the 150th anniversary of Chickamauga a couple of weeks ago. I went through about 500 blanks for the entire weekend including doing filiming a commercial for the NRA, an interview with "The Camp Chase Gazzette" and filming for the movie "Alexander's Bridges". 

[DJ]

I'm sure they did this just to confuse collectors a century+ later, but all of the military-style Spencers, regardless of model, are marked with the 1860 patent date.  The Burnsides are marked "1865" on the receiver across the end of the patent markings.  The Spencer 1865's may or may not be marked on the barrel ahead of the receiver, and the other models (1867 and NM) are usually if not always marked thus on the barrel.  But they all bear the 1860 patent date, which throws off a lot of people.

I have no clue whether the sporting rifles are similarly marked, but Marcot may say.