44 Colt dies

[Deadeye Dick]

Just received a new 1860 Army Richards Mason, 8" bbl. from Cimarron in 44 Colt. Now I need to figure out how to reload the 44 Colt. I see RCBS has 44 Colt dies for a measley $150 and a 90 day waiting period. Does anyone have any ideas about using some of the more reasonable priced dies to reload the cartridges. I have 44 Mag/44 Special dies. Not sure if I can make them work. I have ordered some ammo for the revolver, but it isn't here yet. So I've not had time to set down and fool around with dimensions and the possibility of the cross use of the more commonly available dies. Also what are you using for a load for this round. I have 3 boxes of Black Hills ammo in route to me.
Anything you can do to help me will be appreciated.
Deadeye Dick

[Mossyrock]

I use Lee .44 Russian dies.  They work great, and they DON'T cost $150!

[Sod Buster]

I am also using Lee 44 Russian Dies for my 44 Colt cartridges.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I see RCBS has 44 Colt dies for a measley $150 and a 90 day waiting period.

I'd imagine that those are for ORIGINAL .44 Colt that uses a heel based bullet and not the new modern .44 Colt. 

[Marshal Deadwood]

Deadeye,, I got the Cowboy .44sp/.44russian die from RCBS...Midways has'm...and the .44Colt falls in the middle so it does a DANDY job on'm. You will need an extra shell holder ,,,the .44 Colt rim is different than the .44Sp and .44Russ rim..but the dies will work FINE.

Marshal Deadwood

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Buffalo arms sells 44 colt dies by 4D. Don't know the cost, but do know they are for 44 Colt of the opentop persuasion....cuz that's what I bought mine for...sold the gun kept the dies and use them to size my 44 Rem/Colt C.F. (heeled bullet cartridges after crimping. I think they were in the $70-80.00 Range Check them out. They do a fine job. and they fir an RCBS rockcrusher too.

[Deadeye Dick]

I appreciate all of the input. Looks like I'll be able to to reload the 44's at a reasonable start-up cost. Thanks to all that replied. What type and how much powder are you putting them?

[Mossyrock]

26 gr fffg Goex, WLP Magnum primer, 240gr Lyman RNFP
5gr Unique, WLP Standard primer, same bullet.

I haven't chronographed either load yet, but the BP load has more juice to it.   

[Flint]

I shoot 44 Russian in my 44 Colt and 44 Special Opentops, and have not even bothered to tool up for the 44 colt, another set of dies to buy and just one more similar looking case to sort from other big bore cases in a pile.  The 44 Russian is short enough it's easy to spot.

The Russian with a full load of black powder or sub is very smooth shooting and mild in recoil, uses less powder and cheaper dies.

[litl rooster]

I appreciate all of the input. Looks like I'll be able to to reload the 44's at a reasonable start-up cost. Thanks to all that replied. What type and how much powder are you putting them?

  Personaly, I fill my casing full. 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Dead Eye...
Are you sure about the price? RCBS makes a 44 Russian/44 Colt combination three carbide die set and I paid $60.00 bucks for them two years ago...new from Midway.

Bill

[Deadeye Dick]

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search
Item #777881 RCBS 3 Die Set 44 Colt    $150.99   Special Order   90 + days
I see they have the 44 Russian at a more palatable cost.  $52.99   They also show the 44 Russian at the same cost as the above 44 Colt. The less expensive one being the " Cowboy " type dies. I wonder why the difference in cost. Lee has them for around $22. Will they work in a Rockchucker press?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I just looked at Buffalo Arms and a set of 4D 44 Colt are as follows;

44 Colt Die Set, 4D
Reloading Dies

Item #: 4D44COLT

Your Price:    $72.55 / Each

The same price I paid several years ago when I bought my Open Top 44 Colt, one of the first ones that Cimarron Sold.

[65bsaA65]

Halfway Creek Charlie, can the set of .44 Colt dies available from Buffalo Arms be used for reloading heeled bullets , or is another die required?  Any modification to the cases necessary?

[Deadeye Dick]

Please excuse my ingnorance, but what is a heeled bullet?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

.44 Colt Dies?  May he Rest In Peace.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Deadeye;   A heeled bullet is what you will find stuck in the neck of a .22 shell.

The outside diameter of the bullet is roughly the same diameter as the outside of the case.  There is a "heel" of lesser diameter to fit INSIDE the case.  This was done originally from two points of view.

1.  The .44 Henry could very well be an extrapolation of the .22short, by doubling each dimension without other changes.

2.  In converting Cap & Ball revolvers, there wasn't much meat on the cylinders for a larger case.  The answer was, to back up the bullet of a size to fit the bore with the narrowest possible case.  This avoided having to make new cylinders or open up the frame for the larger cylinder.

It was obvious, even then, that a bullet worked best when fitted to the inside of the case neck and was of proper diameter its full length.  Very few rifles were made for heeled ammo, and other famous pistol rounds, like the .450 Adams, were already in sevice elsewhere, with inside lubed bullets.  I think the historians give too much credit to the Russians.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

In answer to the use of the 44 Colt Dies for heeled bullets is yes and no. Clear as mud Huh?

What I do is bell the case a bit with the 44 Colt Die, then seat the bullet in a Lyman 310 hand loader, mine is 44-40 so the bullet will stick in the loader if I'm not not careful, so I leave about 1/8 of the case out(off the handloader edge and gently seat the bullets.
( I suspect that a 45 LC seater will work better, but I don't have one).
I then crimp with the Lee Factroy crimper modified by Bernie Knowles at Old West Moulds.
I then size (lubrisizer) the bullets after crimping.
I full length size the cartridges in the 44 Colt sizer Die. I do the last step because I find that my Original Remy Conversions are picky about case/bullet  dia. and the R & D I had was too.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I think the historians give too much credit to the Russians.

Firstly, it was an American shooter who brought to the attention of UMC the need for inside lubed bullets for the .44 Russian in the 1880's. It is a MYTH that the the cartridges in .44 Russian were anything but OUTSIDE LUBED before this. Want proof? Go here & scroll down:

http://www.oldammo.com/september04.htm

[Deadeye Dick]

Sir Charles, Halfway and Fox Creek Kid,
Thanks for sharing the info. with me. I never heard of heeled bullets before.
I think I will purchase the 44 Russian dies. Still haven't received my ammo yet. Supposed to come in on Wednesday. Getting anxious to get on the firing line.