Richards Mason Conversion

[Graveyard Jack]

A thought.......leaving a 2nd Gen Colt "as is" may not be saving for posterity a gun super high in value right now.......but......2-3-4 generations from now they will be very valuable I'd guess.

So what??? If profit is the desired result, most guns are a very poor investment. You'd be better off buying CD's or some stock in Ruger or something. Enjoy a sixgun for what it is or sell it to someone who will. There is no guarantee that two or three generations from now, your descendants will give a damn about your old guns that were never used and if so, they will likely be sold to the first offer. To me, a sixgun that sat on a shelf for 50yrs has no value beyond what someone will pay for it. However, grand-dad's old Colt that he spent many years carrying, shooting and hunting with is priceless.

Life is short, live a little.

Besides, there's absolutely no reason to think that a custom built cartridge conversion won't appreciate in value better than a box stock Colt.

[rifle]

CraigeC, I can see yer point. Guns are made to shoot but.....I think the 2nd Gens were made to collect a little more. People go fer the unturned/unfired 2nd Gens. Those have the value the people want.
It's not really profit or money where the value lies. It's what the gun inherently is...unfired/unturned shows the gun in it's true light as art/craftsmanship in form and function. A fired used used gun can show the same art/craft if it's maintained well and a lot of folks do shoot and maintain their guns well so they hold their intrinsic value as a art in form and function. A nice gun is a beautiful machine.
I guess if an 2nd Gen was converted well and artfully displaying high end craftmanship it could be/show more or be more of an interest. A hacked up so-so conversion would ruin the guns  art in form and function that it originally had. Like when someone takes away from a nice antique gun what it originally displayed with it's original form and craftmanship.
I could value a 2nd Gen Colt gun converted and......even feel it's been added to by the craftman that altered it. Take a conversion 2nd Gen Colt Raven may work.......if it's without the sligtest eye-sore of ill fit anywhere inside or out and displaying the artform and craftmanship of a conversion done exactly as an original was done......I'd buy it and value it but not for it's money value but for it's value as folk art/craftsmanship/gunsmithing skill/sweat/blood and tears put into it.
If my Grandpa used it to pop rabbits fer supper fer Grandma and shot the gun fer years as a favorite I'd worship the gun. If it were someone elses Grandpa....not appreciate it the same way.
When I see 2nd Gens used and utterly abused I gringe. When I see a used/fired one in nice shape (I actually hope to find) I hope to buy them fer being a bargin I may be able to aford.   I have a 2nd Gen 1860 Army I bought unfired and all and.....ain't enjoyed it yet the way I'd like as I hesitate to shoot it. I did like the fact it wasn't fired and I would be in command as to whether it would be fired or left as is. Now I have a little delema and some responsibility to posterity. Now.....with your opinion shown...it's worse of a hassel to make a decision. It's still stored away wrapped in rust-blox paper and a plastic bag and I get some satisfaction knowing it's there and unfired and all. I get it out now and then and look at it. I go out and "shoot" my Belgian made 1860 Army pistol and my Uberti conversion/Open Top guns.
It would be easier if Grandpa was still around and I could give it(the 2nd Gen) to him to break in fer me for a coupla decades. I could pass the responsibility/dirty deed  to him and then get the gun back in fired/broke in and ready to be used some more condition.
Anywhoooo......either way.....shoot the gun or not shoot the gun or convert or not convert  it's right whatever the owner wants to do.....if the gun is not abused. Convertin the gun to a Richards or Richards Mason it's only right enough if the gunsmith is a master at it and adds to the gun and not takes away from it.
I do see yer point Hombre and....couldn't or wouldn't argue on it much. I'd rather use the debate time to go shootin. If it were a converted 2nd Gen I'd hope it was in original configuration shootin the heeled bullet 44 Colt cartridge with black powder. I'd be hoping that the converter did a special artful master craftsman job on it too.
All things said though.....I wouldn't want to convert the 2nd Gen I have. I'd do that conversion with a regular ole Uberti gun instead. While at that I might be agonizing over whether or not to shoot my second Gen. 

[Graveyard Jack]

As usual, perception is everything and is rarely based on all the facts. I think people 'think' they're worth more in the box but if you track prices, they're not doing very well. Along with virtually any 3rd generation Colt SAA. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do with their property but by the same token, I encourage them NOT to do what others tell them to do with their property. I encourage them to be a little more open minded about these things. I just think that if you're going to keep one in collectible condition, you should do so with your eyes open. Not with the false impression that they are someday going to be worth a lot of money. A LOT of people have bought new production Colt's thinking that they are an investment. Well, if you bought a brand new $1200 Colt SAA 15yrs ago and adjust that for inflation, you have lost money because the new ones are still $1200 but are much better guns.

ld Colt's are a different story.

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[Mike]

I go with shooting them, look after it by all means, but use it and injoy it. Who care's what it is worth when I am dead and gone.
I was offered a 2nd gen 1860 Army unfired in box, but some one had cocked the action the incorrect way and had marked the cylinder. To me that gun was used and had little value other than a shooter. I bought a Uberti instead.

[Major 2]

I have two second 1860's both are circa 1977

One I bought NIB for $273.00 in 1977 ....I used it for 28 years in mounted CW reenacting , I still use it today
with a Conversion Cyl.

The other I bought unfired in 1990...it too saw time in my pommel holsters...

# 1  still has its Case Hardened Color but no blue remains ... this gun has been fired with thousands of blanks & since the Conversion Cyl. maybe 1000 45's

#2  is in fine but fired condition .....

Point is I bought them to shoot ....the only 1860 I do not shoot is my circa 1862 > 5th Iowa Cavalry issued model ( it lettered )

I have a Kenny Howell Type 1 Richards ...on a Uberti Frame

[Coffinmaker]

I may have been misunderstood.  When I suggested leaving the 2d Gen "as is" I meant as a Cap Gun, to be used as a Cap Gun.  So much more sensible to buy a purpose built copy of a conversion and save 2 grand and the two year wait.

I believe guns are meant to be shot.  Frequently.

Some year back, I became temporarily flush, and decided I needed the "ultimate" CAS guns so I wentto one the country's largest antique  and collector gun shows, in Denver, Colorado.  One fella had a 90 foot long "wall" of Winchesters.  Enough to make you shake and tremble.
Anyway, I found a boxed set of heavily engraved Early Colts, Ivory handles and silver plated.  I could afford 'em on that day.  The vendor wouldn't let me cycle the actions, butI was gonna buy anyway.  I turned to my partner and shared that would sent the guns to Peacemaker Specialists for their super duper cowboy action job then get a swell double rig for 'em.  Shoulda kept my mouth shut.  The vendor closed the box lid, took 'em off the table and said they weren't for sale.  Afraid I was actually gonna Shot 'em (I was and still would).
Lettered, famous guns from the past should be in a museum so everyone can see them.  Just another boxed set of Colts should be played with.  That's what they were manufactured for.

Coffinmaker

 

[Graveyard Jack]

Agreed!

Every once in a while I'll buy an older NIB S&W or Ruger but keep my lips sealed as to my intent. I was really slobbering over all those rare NIB USFA percussion and cartridge conversions on Gunbroker before Christmas but just couldn't swing it. Anything I buy, no matter what it costs, will get shot and holstered.

[Major 2]

Indeed ! 

If one buys Rolls Royce and plans the weekend Demolition Derby, ALL previous owned rights are sold
once the cash has been paid !

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have and always will shoot my Original guns be they Colt's, Remington's, Smith's, Star's you name it....IF...the said guns are safe to shoot. I ewill never be able to afford a museum piece, but have had several fine wea[pons that got shot as they were inted to be used. The fact that they are still in shooting shape is a testament to their various makers. I agree that the museum pieces should be in a museum and shared with all who would want to see them.

[Justician]

So basically you're better off to start with a late production Uberti and spend the money you saved over a Colt on finish work like bone charcoal color case hardening and charcoal bluing? I don't have a problem with that. Personally, if I'm spending that much on a custom gun, I want the best result, not the prettiest name.

It really depends on what your motivations are. Two of those Colt 2nd generations that Raven is working on are mine. I bought them with the intent to send them to Raven to be converted. I saved to pay for it to be done. When I get them back I will have Colt's that have been converted.  Is it a great investment? No, because I will shoot them. Could I have gotten much more for less? Certainly. 

I'm not out to impress anyone else, but I'm 60 years old and I've busted my ass since I was big enough to carry a bucket. I decided that it was time to have something special that I wanted. And these are what I wanted.

Justician

[Coffinmaker]

Justician,

Perfectly good reasoning for your actions.  I've done very similar things with guns.  Some may seem to others to be silly, but I still have a large grin on my face when I compete with the conversions I've built.  Up until  I retired from the trade, I always explained the "less" expensive alternatives before I separated them from their money

Coffinmaker

[Mean Bob Mean]

"I'm not out to impress anyone else, but I'm 60 years old and I've busted my ass since I was big enough to carry a bucket. I decided that it was time to have something special that I wanted. And these are what I wanted."

This

It made no sense for me to buy a Conversion revolver in .44 Colt, none. But I certainly do not need the things I have that I do not care about, this I wanted and I am happy I did it.  If a guy settles, he'll be horse trading for something else later that he wanted the first time.  Take the time, put it aside, get what you want.  By the time I am finished I will have far fewer guns and far fewer practical firearms.  I am quite sure I will be happier.