Automatics

[Colt Fanning]

Howdy,
This may be a dumb question but are early automatics such as the C96 Mauser legal as an Ncows main match pistol or must
you use a revolver? Also would 9mm or 30 cal Mauser be a legal cartridge?

Regards
Colt

[Tascosa Joe]

Colt:
I dont think any of the early auto pistols are legal.  I think this was addressed several years ago on the chambers forum, but I am not sure.  I think the Broomhandle is one of the reasons GAF started.  The Judge needs to come up on the net for this one.  Trap may be able to answer as he was the Judge for several years.
T-Joe

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Howdy,
This may be a dumb question but are early automatics such as the C96 Mauser legal as an Ncows main match pistol or must
you use a revolver? Also would 9mm or 30 cal Mauser be a legal cartridge?

Regards
Colt

One could easily argue that the Mauser C96, the Borchardt 93, and the Mannlicher 94 all fall within our time frame.   Heck, JM Browning was working on prototypes of the Colt 1900 as early as 1893.  Were they in common use on the North American Frontier?   Can we find solid documentation of this? (per our firearm covenant)

Aside from regulation (which I'm sure a higher authority will respond here),  I'd be concerned about safety. 

Would enough members be knowledgeable enough about the clockworks of these old autos to safely police the users, examine, and clear the weapons?  I know of a SASS club that has run into this problem with the 1911s and the evolving Wild Bunch matches.  Safety officers are needing extra safety training regarding the safe use of the autos in competition.


Lastly is the spirit of our sport.  I personally just don't envision an automatic as a common trapping of the Old West. 

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[Tjackstephens]

I sure get some funny looks when I shoot my Colt DA and S &W 1899. Tj 

[Texas Lawdog]

I have a C96 and it would be interesting to shoot it in a side match.

[Will Ketchum]

As I understand it the older autos work best with jacketed bullets and most require rather hot loads to function reliably. That combination would not only be hard on targets but on shooters.

Will Ketchum

[Books OToole]

There is a caveat in the by-laws that states that the pre-1899 weapon must have been originally chambered for a blackpowder round.  This eliminates all of the 19th century auto-loaders.  

But...I do think is would be really neat to shoot a "broomhanldle" at a match.  I guess that what GAF matches are for.


Books

[Cash Creek]

The Broomhandle Mauser

Generally considered the second oldest successful semi auto pistol it came out in 1896. The Borchardt that came out in 1893 was the first successful auto loader though it didn’t stick around very long and was the forunner of the Luger. The Borchardt pistol came out with a 30 caliber bottle neck cartridge which was also adopted by the Mauser C 96 pistol in essentially the same loading though the C 96 was loaded a little hotter by some accounts. While the Broomhandle wasn’t designed by Paul Mauser three brothers who worked at his factory developed the design over a period of a couple of years starting in 1893. By March of 1895 they had a prototype made and fired it. The brothers Fidel, Friedrich and Josef Feederle had designed the Mauser pistol and by 1896 Paul Mauser applied for patients in several countries as he felt the he had a commercial winner.

[Dusty Tagalon]

In playing around with my C96, I can't get it to fully function at less then 1000 feet per second, the hammer doesn't make it back quite far enough.

[Colt Fanning]

Howdy,
Is it a 9mm?
Regards
Colt

[Colt Fanning]

T-Joe,
Why was the broom handle one of the reasons that the GAF started?  They don't allow the
broom handle do they?
Regards
Colt

[Tascosa Joe]

I think they do, they use Military weapons up to 1901.  I think it would have to be paired with a Mauser Rifle of some kind. 

[Tascosa Joe]

Colt:
Check the Barracks and the Muster Rules Child Board.  It shows the C96 Mauser is legal and the use of a stripper clip to load the weapon is also allowed.
T-Joe

[Colt Fanning]

HI,
Thanks for the info.
Regards
Colt

[pony express]

Dusty, did you try any heavy bullets in it, like 147 gr, or maybe some re-sized 158 gr?