recoil: .44-40 vs. .45 Colt from a revolver

[kcub]

About the same or no given the same revolver type and barrel length?

[St. George]

No one can guage 'your' sense of 'felt recoil'.

You are the only one who can do that.

Some small men can shoot a full-patch .44 Magnum all day, while larger men can't - it's all relative to your shooting experience and the ergonomics of the weapon being fired.

If you practice enough - recoil really doesn't enter into it after awhile.

Scouts Out!

[Danny Bear Claw]

I can't feel much difference between a 45 Colt load and a 44-40 in cowboy loads and the same size and weight revolvers.  I shoot the powerful Corbon DPX 45 Colt loads in my Ruger Alaskan and have shot some of the lighter 454 Casull loads in it as well.  My love of big bore sixguns has made me indifferent to recoil, but my hands are getting older now and have started hurting a little after longer shooting sessions.  Arthritis?  Maybe...      

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[kcub]

No one can guage 'your' sense of 'felt recoil'.

You are the only one who can do that.

Some small men can shoot a full-patch .44 Magnum all day, while larger men can't - it's all relative to your shooting experience and the ergonomics of the weapon being fired.

If you practice enough - recoil really doesn't enter into it after awhile.

Scouts Out!

true, but there is still the aspect of "relative felt recoil" which is what I asked about

[Trailrider]

I can't feel much difference between a 45 Colt load and a 44-40 in cowboy loads and the same size and weight revolvers.  I shoot the powerful Corbon DPX 45 Colt loads in my Ruger Alaskan and have shot some of the lighter 454 Casull loads in it as well.  My love of big bore sixguns has made me indifferent to recoil, but my hands are getting older now and have started hurting a little after longer shooting sessions.  Arthritis?  Maybe...      

Have you read some of John Taffin's recent comments on his hands and the effect recoil from "super mag" handguns has had?

[Trailrider]

true, but there is still the aspect of "relative felt recoil" which is what I asked about

The felt recoil will be more noticeable with heavier bullets even for ammo loaded in the SASS-legal ranges.  I have a pair of convertable .44 Ruger OM Vaqueros.  When I first started loading the ".44 Extra Long Russian" (thats .44 Magnum brass loaded to CAS standards), I tried the customary 240 gr. bullets.  While the loads, in the 875-900 ft/sec range were NOT punishing, I could definitely feel the difference between them and rounds loaded with 213 gr. (210 gr nominal, commercially cast) bullets, which is what I was using, loaded to 950 ft/sec in the .44-40 cylinders. I switched to the same bullet in the .44 Mag. cases, and by adjusting the smokeless powder charges was able to get matching ballistics in both cartridges.  Recoil felt the same.  Load 250 gr. slugs in the .45 LC, and, depending on the velocities, the felt recoil is more like the .44 XLR loadings.

Now a caveat!  Although I know folks who load bullets as light as 180 gr. in .45 LC, and use very reduced loads as a means of dropping recoil, I do NOT recommend bullets lighter than about 200-230 gr., and you need to use a firm roll crimp!  Lack of a firm, but not excessive roll crimp can, especially wiith medium-burning or slow-burning powders can lead to ignition delays, hangfires or worse!

[Danny Bear Claw]

Trailrider... I have read about John Taffin's hand problems.  I've read the stuff he wrote about his hands too.  I saw the X-rays of his hands as well.  Not a pretty sight.  After reading all of that I went out and bought wrist bands and padded shooting gloves for my range sessions with the big bore sixguns I own.  I get some funny looks sometimes at the range, especially when putting on the wrist bands and gloves before starting to shoot, but once observers start hearing my "sonic booms" they understand.  They do make shooting the big guns a lot easier on the mitts too.   

[litl rooster]

I'm glad to see I am not the only person who suffers this. I honestly can't tell when I am shooting, it's just a short time after a session at the range. Maybe I should try some wrist aides or gloves. I'd have to agree I can't tell any difference in .45 to 44-40

[Delmonico]

This formula is not perfect, but as long as you compare smokeless loads to smokeless loads and black to black it will give you a fair idea of the differances if you do it as a percent between the rounds or loads:



It's out of Hatcher's Notebook.

[pony express]

Basically, if the gun weight is the same, bullet weight and velocity is the same, recoil will be about the same. But as someone else mentioned, you have to compare black to black, and smokeless to smokeless, They don't feel the same.

[Trailrider]

Basically, if the gun weight is the same, bullet weight and velocity is the same, recoil will be about the same. But as someone else mentioned, you have to compare black to black, and smokeless to smokeless, They don't feel the same.

One reason BP gives more felt recoil than smokeless with a given weight of bullet and muzzle velocity is that the mass of the expelled combustion products and unburned powder is ADDED to the mass of the bullet.  The equal and opposite reaction (recoil) is therefore greater than most smokeless powders because of the latter's greater density and resulting lighter (in mass) amounts of powder.

Of course, with smokeless, you can get a sharper-feeling recoil comparing some smokeless powders with others (or even with BP), depending on the burning rate of the powder.  Since smokeless powder is capable of much hotter results than BP, you will definitely feel more impact from really hot loads.  This is even more true with rifles.  Comparing a .30-06 to, say a .45-70, the former will give a sharper-feeling recoil, whereas with most BP loads in the .45-70, the recoil is more like a shove rather than a jolt.

[Fairshake]

I have owned and fired both calibers in SASS matches. I load and shoot only Warthog Loads with Goex 2F powder. When the bullet is seated it crunches the powder charge some what. When I was shooting the 45 Colt with 255 grain RNFP I received what felt like the strongest recoil. I then went to shooting 45 Schofield cases which held about 29 grains before the seated bullet and that was topped off with a 210 gr bullet. Although powerful these were milder than the Colt loads. When I changed over to the 44-40 and about 33 grains with a 210 gr bullet I felt about the same as the 45 Colt loads. My felt recoil was about the same for the two. I would imagine that it would take some type of lab equipment to reach a true number of felt recoil. But that number even though known would not have the same given effect on every shooter. So lets see we have square one here

[Percussion Pete]

Let me add another question to this thread. Sort of on topic.

Cartridge 45's seem to use heavier buttets than C&B revolvers. I believe a 45 ball is about 145 gr. I don't see 45 cartridges loading that light of a bullet. However, if you had a cartridge loaded with the same weight bullet as a 45 ball, and the same load of BP powder. Which would have more recoil? I think the cartridge would as it seals the pressure better. Do you agree?

[Fairshake]

Pete, I attended LSU but the classes were in criminal justice. I think your question would be better if turned over to the engineering dept. As a lay person who had some physics I would say not necessarily so. If all the variables were to a given set of specifications then it would be the same. Weight of both guns, chamber throats on cylinders, barrel bore sizes and seal of each projectile. It would also have to be taken in the same location on the same day. A cloudy day will intensify the felt concussion from any blast at ground level. I never thought I would be disscussing these problems when I became a SASS member. Ha!! Ha!!

[Delmonico]

Pete, I attended LSU but the classes were in criminal justice. I think your question would be better if turned over to the engineering dept. As a lay person who had some physics I would say not necessarily so. If all the variables were to a given set of specifications then it would be the same. Weight of both guns, chamber throats on cylinders, barrel bore sizes and seal of each projectile. It would also have to be taken in the same location on the same day. A cloudy day will intensify the felt concussion from any blast at ground level. I never thought I would be disscussing these problems when I became a SASS member. Ha!! Ha!!

How ever the gases lost through the leakage of the nipple would reduce recoil a small amount, also the gasses coming back would tend to push the gun forward.  Now if either point would be enough to njotice I doubt, to measure on some sophisticated device, probally.

[Dr. Bob]

44-40 vs 45 Colt!  Nipple??