7.5" vs 5.5" bbls

[Dusty Tagalon]

I am loading 20 grains in both barrel lengths of my 44 caliber 51s. No problem out of the 7.5" barrel. Very light out of the 5.5" barrel. Is it a factor of more powder buring outside the barrel, or bad compression because of lower amount of leverage with the shorter loading lever?

Thanks
Dusty

[Dick Dastardly]

Try loading both cylinders on the long gun, then shoot a comparison.  Then do the same thing with the short gun.  Take notes and report back.  Two inches of barrel length shouldn't make all that much of a difference.

Also, take a look at the barrel/cylinder gaps.  Slug the barrels.  Check the nipple holes.  Yer lookin' for gas leaks here.  Try to eliminate the variables.

Lots of Italian guns have undersize chambers and oversize barrels.  Result, gas leakage and poor ballistics.

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

20 grains in a .44 is pretty light.  (Assuming you are shooting BP or are using volume equivalents of a substitute.)  Sounds like the rammer isn't seating the ball all the way on the shorter barrel.  Try what Dick suggested and then try upping the charge to 25.  (Again, if shooting real BP or a VOLUME equivalent of a sub.)  On my Pietta .44 51s with the short barrels, the rammer barely seats the bullet on the powder with 25 grains and I get little or no compression.  With 20 grains I get no compression and was getting hang fires.

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

When I first started shooting my Pietta New Model Remington I thought I had a dud.  At least two flyers per cylinder.  I had started at about 20-25 grains.  I even tried Cream of Wheat over the powder.

When I got to 29 grains, I had a tack driver! (My Cap'nball revolvers seem to be the most accurate revolvers I own!)

My Remmiel, at any rate, loves to be loaded up.   If you have a steel frame revolver, there is no reason not to load it up.  The Colts seem to want about 29 grains of 3F GOEX, but I wouldn't go over that.  My Pietta 1860 Army loves that load as well.  Coincidently, I saw an article by Mike Venturino.  His load for the 1860 was 29 grains 3F.

[Ransom Gaer]

I have found my 1860 Armies like heavier charges as well.  I normally load a nominal 30 grain charge(probably 27-28 actually).  And besides I get more smoke and flame that way.

Ransom Gaer

[Black Powder]

I'm uppin' the ante in my Pietta 60 Army.  Just read the spout on the flask I have & it says 15.  Thanks, Sir Charles.  Never misfired, but couldn't get dialed in.  I knew it was the tool, not the carpenter. 

Appreciate the science, DD.

BP

[Four Eyed Floyd]

I run about 28-9 in my 51s and they work great.  There is nothing like the smoke and fire.
I run about 90 in my kentucky long rifle and in the Hawken big boooooooom! Fun!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

There is a way to do a "gross error check".  Pour just enough powder in the chamber to allow the ball to be rammed to leave a bit of clearance.  Might take a bit of trial 'n arrow.  However, the most I've seen suggested for a .44 Colt is the said 29 gr GOEX 3f.

I've seen suggestions that the Remmies might take a grain or two more

[Ace Lungger]

Are any of you guys useing felt wads? If so how thick? does that matter when setting up a charge? I have not shot my 51 yet, D.D. gave me a 457 mould. I am going to get out  my calipers I have a couple good ones, and I am going to check each cyclinder, and then the barrel, when checking the barrel, do I check strait across land to land, or the barrel? I was told to use a 454 ball and 24gr.
 My plan, wheter it is right powder, wad, bullet, and my homemade butter Last year I went to garage sale and bought 10 lbs of smokeless powder, 1 jug of Pyrodex for pistol, and a lot of other misc. Since I got the Pyro i am going to use it up, i have been warned to rely clean after shooting it. Then if I like shootting C&B I am going to shoot the real stuff. A friend of mine buys it with a group and gets 50lbs at a time.He shoots a C&B Musket and a 45-70 High Wall.
 Since I am a dumb a$$ when it comes to the Dark Side, I don't want to blow up my gun! But I have read with my cowboy cartridge loads you can go 3 thousands over on lead bullets, i assume that should be true with C & B, if the cylinder and barrel mate! Is this right?
 
  I apoligize for Hogging the thread

All help will be deeply apreicated

ACE

[Ransom Gaer]

Ace,

I use a lubed felt wad all the time.  They are typically around 1/8" thick.  I have used Wonder Wad brand and currently useMik's Quality Black Powder 1/8" Felt Wads made by Components Plus.  I like them better than Wonder Wads, more lube.  Harder to get though.  Package says Flintlocks, Inc  Phone number 317-933-3441.

Ransom Gaer

[Black Powder]

Are any of you guys useing felt wads? If so how thick? does that matter when setting up a charge?

I use a felt wad.  Dimensions unknown.  Store bought.  It's sold for the caliber of gun, so I just pick up a bag.  Trusty ruler indicates they're about 1/8" thick.  I don't think it should matter as far as setting up a charge goes, assuming you are staying within the recommended load; i.e., the chamber should allow for ~25 grains of powder (for my .44) and wad, ram 'em down and top off with some bore butter.

I'm shooting 3f Goex.  Don't know anything about Pyrodex, subs and their loads relative to bp.

I don't know about 3 thousandths here or there on this stuff.  I just realized that many years ago when I bought my flask, the guy gave me a Colt flask with a 15 gr spout.  Fine for 36, but my 60 Army is a .44!  So I've been unknowingly shooting a light load at the range for a couple years.  No problem hitting the targets at 25 yds.

But I am anxious to feed it properly this weekend.  It's clearly malnurished!

Hope this helps.  I defer to the experts for their technical perspectives.

BP

[Dusty Tagalon]

After further review. I am loading 26 grains of APP, using a wonder wad. I measured the cylinders & barrels, they are very close. So I am going to look closer the compression issue. I may pick up a small pipe to get additional leverage on the loading lever.

Dusty

[Dalton Masterson]

In my experience, APP felt like a lighter load in equal amounts, but that may just be my biased opinion..

I shoot a 30gr spout of 2F , which translates to 28-29 with finger room, in my Colts and Remmys. I use homemade wads in the .44s now, with dimensions varying slightly. I used crisco/beeswax/olive oil mix on the wads, and they work great.

I tried the brand Cabelas carries now at Hell On Wheels, and from load time to shoot time, which was maybe 15 min., they deteriorated my load badly. They are too juicy to suit me. I layed them on a paper towel, and microwaved them for a minute in the motel room. They work fine now.

DM

[Professor Marvel]

I may pick up a small pipe to get additional leverage on the loading lever.

Dusty

Greetings Dusty -
One wants to be cautious using a pipe to increase the leverage as it tends to stress the mechanical bits. In the dim past I have bent loading levers and broken screws when trying to lever more compression. It is much more efficacious to obtain one of the outboard cylinder loading tools. One can apply considerabley more pressure and does not damage one's revolver. I think you may find it a achieves more harmonious outcome.
your humble servant
Prof Marvel

[Sky Soldier]

Greetings Dusty -
One wants to be cautious using a pipe to increase the leverage as it tends to stress the mechanical bits. In the dim past I have bent loading levers and broken screws when trying to lever more compression. It is much more efficacious to obtain one of the outboard cylinder loading tools. One can apply considerabley more pressure and does not damage one's revolver. I think you may find it a achieves more harmonious outcome.
your humble servant
Prof Marvel

WELL SAID

[Fingers McGee]

I've also not been impressed with APP in C&Bs, and have not been too happy with the inconsistency of it in cartridges either.  I've pretty much relegated it to use in 12 ga. 

My .44 cal loading is 24 gr fffg (Goex/Sheutzen/Dragon), wonder wad, and a .454 rb.  I use the same loading in my 5 inch Pietta US Marshals & Pietta Lawman 1860 Armies.  The onliest difference I've noticed between the long and short barrels is that the short barreled guns are louder than the long barreled ones.  Both barrel lenghts will handily take care of a Texas Star and knockdowns.

I use a 5 inch piece of tygon tubing over the loading lever to aid in leverage and to keep the latch from digging into the palm of my hand.

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

PS - Congrats again on your 3rd place finish at HOW Dalton

[Dalton Masterson]

Thank you Fingers! Looks like you did pretty well too. Too bad all those other people had to languish in the misery of shooting those self contained things!   
My short barreled 62 was really digging into my palm the last few stages, so I switched to my Remmys. I am really contemplating the short pipe or hose route just to keep that short booger from diggin in. DM

[Fingers McGee]

The piece of tygon tubing I use really works well; especially on the short barreled loading levers.  It's a clear thick walled aquarium tubing that takes a lot of abuse.

FM

[Dalton Masterson]

I'll give that a try! Thanks for the tip fingers! DM