Author Topic: Montana Peak Hat??  (Read 20317 times)

Offline Cyrille

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2007, 11:05:38 AM »
Nutria fur is water repelent not water proof, I talked to Boudreux 'bout that and he said"Cha' but them rats done ruined th muskrat trade, now they's gone to Marylan ta see what they kin ruin there but theys stil enough of them here to make a livin frum but oui mah frien they kinda lik otter they git wet but the skin stays dry.
CYRILLE...  R.A.T. #242
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Offline Mick Archer

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2007, 11:56:02 AM »
  Howdy Pards!
 
   "Carlsbad Crease" before there was a "Gus McCrae..."   ;)  :)

    But I was always fond of the much more future-dated,  "Karate Chop."   ;)  :)  ;D

    Mick Archer
    Who is about to "karate chop" a U.S. Model 1858 Dress Hat ("Hardee/Kossuth")  Possee
Mick Archer and his evil twin brother Faux Cowchild

Offline 'Monterrey' Jack Brass

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 03:18:46 PM »
S.S.

You have raised an excellent topic regarding the so-called 'Montana Peak'. The only source I have detailing it ad infinitum is on-loan right now to Mr Hunt (Jim - if you can post the Rawlins info regarding that subject the this thread it would be great). What Mr Rawlins writes is quite different than you might think regarding the origins of that hat-crush style.

Regarding sources for a proper repo Stetson: Clearwater (Boss of the Plains) is, in my opinion, the best one available right now. Tim Bender Hats makes an equivalent but is not as true as the Clearwater version, though definitely a close second. Go with the Clearwater and you will not be disappointed. I have one and I dare say it is my favorite hat of the three Clearwaters I own.

YMH&OS,

Monterrey J. B. 
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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #23 on: Today at 01:25:54 PM »

Offline James Hunt

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2007, 02:14:07 PM »
WHAT? Brass remembered I had his copy of Rollins "The Cowboy" - man, now I'm goona have to buy my own copy.

Philip Ashton Rollins was born in 1869 of wealthy parents in the east who sent him west to their Montana ranch (which extended from Helena to the border of what is now Glacier National Park - that's big) each summer as a youth where he learned to cowboy and from all reports he loved it. Later trained as a historian at Princeton (BA and MA), he wrote a book of his experiences and knowledge that was published in 1922. His prose is that of an educated man, and contrasts with Abbot's work. Both are outstanding primary resources that compliment each other. In reading both, my impressions is that Abbot tends to cover the 1870's and 1880's while Rollins work speaks of the late 1870's thru the early 1890's.

Commenting on hats Rollins wrote:

"In the southwest, the crown was left at its full height, but its circumference above the summit of the wearer's head was contracted by three or, more commonly, four, vertical, equidistant dents, the resembling a mountain from whose sharp peak descended three or four deep gullies. In the northwest, the crown was left flat on top, but was so far telescoped by a pleat as to remain but approximately two and a half inches high.

"Few men of either section creased their hats in the manner of the other. A denizen of the Northwest appearing in a high-crowned hat was supposed to be putting on airs, and was subject openly to be accused of "chucking the Rio," vernacular for affecting the manners of the Southwesterners, whose dominant river was the Rio Grande. Present-day Northwesterners, faithless to this tradition, have foresworn the low crown and assumed the peak. The United states War Department recently has flown into the face of history by formally designating the dented high peak as the Montana Poke."

from 'The Cowboy', by Philip Aston Rollins, University of Oklahoma Press, 1997, p. 103

So what is this primary source telling us? First we are not sure what he means by 'southwest', my impression is that he is including west Texans. Did the Northwest then include Montana to the Oregon country. Assuming that, it would appear that the "Montana" peak originated in the "southwest" and not the northern plains where it would seem it was adopted along with the flat hat - where a high crown hat was trying to affect the appearance of the Rio Grande country. Further, the implication is that it was the US army that officially branded the name of "Montana Poke" on the style (although they may have stolen a popular expression of the period). As Rollins was basically describing the clothing of a cowboy of the 1880's and later we are probably safe in dating the design to that period.

This is the only primary source text I am aware of concerning the Montana Poke and it is noteworthy that writer attributes is first use to the southwest to be later adopted by the northwest cowboy.
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Offline Ottawa Creek Bill

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2007, 05:35:58 PM »
James...

Great Stuff...I see the book(s) I'll be purchasing next!!

Bill
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Offline 'Monterrey' Jack Brass

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2007, 07:45:19 PM »
Thank you for taking the time to post the info, good Mr Hunt.

A picture is worth a thousand words they say. Perhaps. But written documentation, such as the primary source from Rollins in this case, puts same-said 1000 pictures into the right perspective.

YMH&OS,

Brass
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Offline 'Monterrey' Jack Brass

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2007, 07:51:22 PM »
OCB,

I think you will very much enjoy the Rollins book, it's hard to put down as it has loads of useful primary source info. As you have a scout portrayal, you'll especially enjoy his chapter detailing how to track men/horses. His detail in this is so extensive he had to have trailed a person/s at one point. It was an unexpected surprise when I saw such an amazingly detailed narrative on that subject in his book and will be of interest to you I'll wager.

Let me know what you think when you read it.

YHM&OS,

Monterrey J. B.
NRA Life, VFW Life, F&AM 
Old West Research & Studies Association
amateur wetplate photographer

Offline Will Ketchum

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Re: Montana Peak Hat??
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2007, 05:49:20 PM »
WHAT? Brass remembered I had his copy of Rollins "The Cowboy" - man, now I'm goona have to buy my own copy.

James, there is an old saying,  "There are 2 kinds of fools in the world.....those who lend books...and those that return them"   ;)

Will Ketchum
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