45 long colt cylinders

[louisc]

howdy pardners .I have a cimerron 1873 model p old model45 long colt,I was cleanig it the other day and I noticed the front of the cylinder is not machined all the way to the end of the cylinder.It looks like they remed it to specs from the loading end to about 1/4to 3/8" from the end and then they  stoped and left it smaller almost to specs,a little smaller.My question is this ,is it posible for the cylinder to affect the accuracy of the round? at 15 yards I cant hit the target.tride to find a hit not one out of 100 rounds and I was aiming all over .the 45 scholfeild 200gr.RNFP, being sorter mabee affect the rounds because of the cylinder taper?

[St. George]

The Third Generation Colt Single Action Armys have the same cylinder style - no doubt it was copied.

They're as accurate as those with the full-length clyinder bushing, so unless yours was bored off-center (hard to do, given modern manufacturing methods) - perhaps you need to review how you shoot the piece.

At 15 Yards - with the .45 round - you should see every hole made from the firing line.

While these aren't tack-drivers, they 'are' accurate - as are the selected rounds you're using.

In handgun accuracy - 'consistency' pays dividends, as does dry-firing.

Is your grip firm?

Do you change grip in the middle of the string?

Is your wrist locked, as well as your elbow?

Do you use the same point of aim - 'all' of the time?

Do you flinch?

Have a buddy who has some revolver shooting experience stand to one side when you're shooting, and have him look at your form, while using the 'Ball and Dummy' method - with him loading a dummy round 'somewhere' in the cylinder.

He may be in a better place to analyze any faults that you're not catching on your own.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[louisc]

thank you for responding to my questions.I just got back from a friends he let me borrow a barrle laser and I was completly off.I was aiming at the base of my front site and with the aid of the laser I should be aimimg at the tip of the front site,it lines up perfectly.I was a security police i the air force 4 years and trained on the m-16,203granade attached to m-16,m-60 machine gun and it looks like they stoped the use of it,but never any formal training on handguns and although i try to apply the same steps in shooting its not the same. Im very open to suggestions.with my glock 23 I pull to the left, found out i was pulling the trigger.i found out by puting bolth trigger fingers on the trigger and i shot 3 dead center but one in the 8 ring and one in the edge of the 10 and one in the 9 right down the middle.so I guess i have some practice to do

[St. George]

Teddy Roosevelt once said - "The only shots that count are the ones that hit."

In order to do that, you need to know the basic fundamentals of Marksmanship, and you need to practice.

The NRA has good, basic shooting courses available, and locating a class shouldn't be hard.

Also, you can often find books in your local Library that deal with the shooting fundamentals.

Check them out, read them, and practice dry-firing a lot, before you send any more ammuntion downrange.

It'll pay off.

Another thing that'll pay off is a good, accurate .22, since it'll allow for actual practice, but at low cost.

Again, Good Luck, and if I can be of assistance, just ask.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Virginia Gentleman]

I am at a loss for what is meant by not machined from the front to the back of the cylinder in this case? 

[Abilene]

I thought he was talking about the fact that the cylinder holes are not the same size all the way through, but are somewhat smaller at the chamber mouth?   I sorta thought they were always that way so not sure I understand St. George's comment about 3rd Gen Colts being that way.

[Kinda Sudden]

I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you are describing a cylinder throat. You do not think the cylinder is supposed to be the same diameter from end to end do you? My apologies if I misunderstood.

[Virginia Gentleman]

No, the cylinder throats on the front end should be .452" just a bit larger than today's bullet in .45 Colts.  Bore diameter is .451" today so they should be a bit larger to align the bullet in the forcing cone. 

[Kinda Sudden]

Still think some clarification might be necessary. I think perhaps Louisc thought the chamber of the cylinder when sighted through, looked like the front part nearest the bore was not machined all the way through when in fact he was viewing the chambers throat. Which should be as mentioned above .452 or in a perfect world, 4525. However to expand on this further, the actual measurement often will vary. As reamers wear, they cut the throats smaller and rougher. Ruger is known for this prior to the New Vaquero's. On the other hand naturally the chamber measurement has to be bigger usually around .486 to allow the cartridge to seat with additional room for carbon build up. So when sighting through a cylinders chamber, one should notice a stepped down taper at the front that often due to worn reamers can look roughly machined. Should also be mentioned that there is a step that connects the chamber with the throat, this step while smaller in diameter then the chamber is still larger then the throat. After lots of rounds, wear can often be seen here.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I  understand amd I kinda sorta thought that was what he was say'in.  Thanks for the clarification as I was a bit off on this one.  As far as the step in the chamber throat wearing after lots of rounds, it usually gets caked with lead and seared on powder fouling that makes it look like it is eroded-unless it is a gun shot with lots of black powder or corrosive primers and rode hard and put away wet.  Then things get ugly inside the cylinder chambers with honing them to a polish being the best case scenario.

[Kinda Sudden]

hey I could be wrong as we have not heard from him. I thought maybe this might be what he was seeing. Again, if I misunderstood  his post, my apologies. Have a  blueprint somewhere for the original chamber dimensions. If I can find it, I will put it up just for historical reference. 

[Kinda Sudden]

Here it is.

[louisc]

hi pards, yes the diagram explains it. I was saying I saw a tappered look toward the barrel, looking threw the cylinder it looks alittle ruff instead of being a nice gradual reduction in size, it looks like a bunch of rings, the next smaller than the first. i thought maybe this might affect the accuracy of the gun, point of aim? also i tried to clean it thinking it was a buildup but no it didn't come off.I shot a Glock 23 and a Beretta 96fs 9mm. and i hit a 25 yard target fine but the cimmeron 45lc 5.5 200gr scholfeild rnfp. i can't hit a 2'x 4'upright i keep thinking im missing something besides the target,it might be me but i would like to make sure the gun isnt the prob. thanks guys