Advice from any 38-55 Shooters?

[Silas McFee]

Howdy pards.

Recently I picked up a bargain bin special Winchester 94 in 38-55.  I'm interested in some mid-range shooting, and I heard from some people that the 38-55 won't pound my shoulder, and I can try this sport out some before sinking some serious $$ for the real LR gear.

So my question now is that I have this gun, and my experience loading BP for my main match guns, but no experience with 38-55's.  What kind of dies do you like best, can I fire-form 30-30 brass into 38-55, which sites are best (it just has plain old buck horn style sites now), etc.?

Your comments and advice are welcome.  Thank you in advance.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have an original Highwall, re-bored to 38-55. The bore is exactly .376.   I use RCBS .375 Win dies  (Same round, only shorter, and loaded with lighter "express"  bullets)  I have found that LEE dies are a much better value than most folks give them credit for.  (They are the BEST dies, bar none, for .44-40!)

Yes, I have used 30-30 cases.  What I did, after looking at the 38-55 chapter in Ken Water's PET LOADS, was fire-form them rather than try and use an expander die,  Water's suggestion was 15 grains of BULLSEYE topped by wadded paper towel.  They result is only slightly shorter than a factory  38-55 case.  Some cases looked a bit irregular around the mouth, but most were OK.  With the lever gun, you might have to crimp.  Better to hold out for some factory correct brass.  Just modify enough cases to make some noise with your new toy.  When I did mine, all I could get was old verdigris covered Dominion ammo, or "John Wayne " .32-40 commemorative stuff.  I also tried .375 Win. CASES but I don't crimp in the single-shot.

 POST MODIFIED 29 MAY 06; - DO NOT EVER TRY .375 WIN AMMO OR LOADS IN A .38-55.  It is even a good idea to keep the two entirely separate as they resemble each other too closely, but have vastly diffenent pressures

Be careful about Overall length in the 94. (2.55inch  NO MORE!)  Get them too long and you will learn more than you need about disassembly of the magazine!

Loads are available in most older references.  The Ken Waters chapter in PET LOADS is great, as is anything written by Mike Venturino.  I use the SPG book for most BPCR.

If your gun is an older one, get the headspace checked, as some early smokeless HI -SPEED rounds were quite hot.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Slug that barrel! Seems that this caliber is all over the map as far as bore size goes, especially in the older guns. Sizes can range from .375 to .381 or so. My 1893 Marlin slugged at .381!
 For dies, I prefer the RCBS Cowboy dies with the LEE Factory Crimp die instead of the crimp part of the CB dies. The CB dies come with two expander plugs so you can match it to your correct bullet size............Buck

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[john boy]

Silas - what bullet have you been thinking of using?  As for brass, right now you may have to make your own.  Winchester is in their 'seasonal production' period ... nobody has brass in inventory

[Delmonico]

I'd like to clarify one thing Sir Charles said and I don't think he meant it the way I read it.  Although the 375 Win. dies and brass can be used for the 38-55, the rounds are not the same except loaded with a lighter bullet.  When the 375 first came out their was also a 250 gr jaceted load, no only the 200 gr survives. 

The real problem is that the 375 operates at a full 55,000 cup or I belive it is around 60,000 in psi, I'd have to double check.  The 94 big Bore has a more massive recivier to handle the extra pressure, the standard 94 is made for a max of about 45,000 cup.

What ths means is never try to shoot 375 Ammo in your 375, it is like shooting proof loads all the time.  I shoot an original Winchester 38-55 bullet from a vintage Winchester mould at what Lyman says should be 1900 fps out of my 375.  This load and any other loaded to full 375 specs is way to hot for your 38-55 and would batter it severly in no time and would most likely destroy a Ballard.

Also the walls and the head are heavier in the 375 brass, any load worked up in modified 30-30 brass or 38-55 brass might be to heavy for a 38-55 if 375 brass is used with Nitro Powder.

The 375  as well as the lesser pressure 38-55 is a very dangerous round if it gets mixed into other ammo by mistake, because it will chamber in any belted case or any based on the 30-06 or 8X57 round.  Imagine trying to size the 0.375 bullet out of a 375 winchester down the bore of a 6mm Remmy with no case support.

[Silas McFee]

Howdy pards!

Thanks for the advice.  A little more info on the gun; it started life as a 30-30 and was re-bored (?) to 38-55.  The bore is nice and shiney, but I'm just guessing on the rest.  I was hoping I could make the brass out of something cheaper, and more available, than factory 38-55, but I suppose thems the breaks.  I haven't slugged the bore yet on account of not having any bullets yet, but I plan to use DD's Big Lube 38-55 design when I get a chance.  Without looking, I think that's about 240 grains, plus of minus.

The rifle is ugly as sin, and looks like it spent years in a case in a damp basement.  But the price was right, and I'm only planning on shooting BP with it.

Should I get one of the go-no-go gauges and check this thing out with it?  I'm trying to do this on a budget, as that was the original mission... 

[Loco Smith]

you can get brass pretty  cheap $40 100 at Buffloa arms. The Winchester will be a little short but you would have to measure and check the chamber length. But I'd bet yours is set up for the winchester standard brass which is the 30 30 length. Fire form it'll work. then fill with BP and bullet with a little compression and shoot it. Don't leave an air gap. Don't over crimp. I would slug the boreto get diam.  Loco Have fun nice round..

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Delmonico;  You are so right.  I should be more careful in how I express myself!  Anytime case headstamps could get confusing, they eventually will.

I was talking about using the BRASS.    NOT .375 Win Ammo or loads.  I only tried a few of the .375 cases I acquired at a gunshow, as the fireformed .30-30 & .32 Spl. cases worked fairly well.  I have 60 made up, which is almost a lifetime supply in the Hi-Wall.

[Delmonico]

Sir Charles, I figured that but with the severe problems it could cause I wanted to point that out. 

Because I own a 375 Winchester and love to shoot cast bullets I would hesitate to buy a 38-55.

The next person that puts a 270 Winchester round in a 270 Weatheby cause they want a lower powered round won't be the first on by far.  Fact is I've heard it's sort of common.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Well, I found out that with my custom bullets (shorter base and longer front nose) I can just BARELY get 55gr of FFg into the case, but, this requires a drop tube and a full 1/8" of compression. I don't like using that much compression with BPCR.

Using BAC pulled brass and the Lyman mold for the 38-55, I can als BARELY get 55gr of powder in a case. again, with .125" of compression.

[NOTE: I designed my boolit mold so as to account for todays shorter brass by having it use a longer nose...]

OAL in either case is 2.55", which is about the MAXIMUM that a Winchester model 94 can actually chamber.

I used a 40" drop 1/4" diameter drop tube to get it all in there... which wasn't easy.

Realistically, with either setup, 50gr is about all your gonna get before you start looking at some compression issues.

[Delmonico]

Never fear, I've heard the factory ammo only had 47-48 grains.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Silas,

I've gotta see that new shootn' iron.  It sounds like a shooter and a deer killer to me.

My LEE dies work great.  For compressing the powder, I use my 1/2 ton arbor press and a bolt.  Compresses powder real good.  One thing I would advise, is that you get yer hands on some Circle Fly over powder wads to use under the bullet.  Then, the new DD-38-55-240 RNFP bullet will really do the job in a tube rifle.  Mine slide thru very easy and chamber perfect.  The rifling just barely shows up on the bullet when the lever is closed and magazine/feeding length is perfect.  It's very accurate.

For a sight, you  might do worse than a Lee Shaver mid range sight and a Lyman globe front sight.  Take a look at mine and see what you think.

FWIW, I'm headin' for your neck of the woods this weekend and I'll bring some cast DD-38-55 bullets along that aren't lube/sized and you can slug your bore with one and load the others.

I won't have time before then, but the 30-30 brass idea looks good.  First of all, very few pards load the stuff and it is usually available for free if you look around.  I like free.

See you down the trail.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm shooting my Hi-wall more now.  I have the .375449 mould for the .375 H&H.  I load it without sizing, and without gascheck, just hand apply the SPG.  My barrel is a #3, so not that heavy.  I measured the distance from base to the shoulder of the bullet as 2.35".  That is a fairly long seating depth.

Can anyone recommend a mould for a +-300gr. plain base bullet that might do for side matches and maybe silouettes.  Of course, I will be using BP!