Cartridge loops - a How-to

[Farmer]

Thanks a ton guys,..I do have PLENTY 45colts on hand was hoping they were pretty close!

[MontanaSlick]

1 1/2 fer sure, thats what Jerry used for the Quigley rig.

Ten Wolves, did you take lessons from Jerry too?

MS

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

1 1/2 fer sure, thats what Jerry used for the Quigley rig.

Ten Wolves, did you take lessons from Jerry too?

MS

       I consider myself lucky, my mentor was CowboyWC, and still is, I don't know Jerry, but I'm sure he is a good teach too. I have found along with having our FAC/AND HOW TOO's, that keeping notes and a note book, has been a big help, when I need information that applies to things that I make, I keep all these things in my shop so they're handy, makes my life much easier.

                            tEN wOLVES

[MontanaSlick]

I hear ya Ten Wolves, I finally got my new shop done up, organized with a filing system and the tools are where I kin finnd em.
Only took 50 yrs.

Slick

[JD Alan]

Can someone point me to some How To information on woven cartridge loops? I see Chuck Burrows refer to them on the first page of the FAQ thread on the subject of cartridge loops, but from then on, the thread is all about sewing loops.

I suppose that ought to tell me something: people generally sew loops rather than use the woven or semi woven method of dealing with loops. But then Chuck says he uses woven loops and, well he's Chuck Burrows! That's like saying E.F. Hutton around here. 

I'm assuming there is a prescribed size and weight of loop material and size of bag punch or something like it, plus a certain distance between the loops. I'm wondering what, if anything is used to anchor those loops down, and maybe that's where the semi portion comes in.

I'm also wondering why people prefer one method of loop making over another. Some comments on the pros and cons of each method would be a great thing/

I've avoided making loops for as long as I can, but the time for foot dragging is over. As always your help is greatly appreciated. JD   

[Ned Buckshot]

Howdy JD

I've only used woven loops since I started way back when. I prefer them because in time all loops will stretch a bit and it's very easy to re-wet the loops pull them tight and reattach at each end.

I use fancy Chicago screws on the ends only (excepy for a belt with ALOT of loops then I'll use one in the center)and 4-5 oz. leather for the actual loops. The width of the leather for the loop is subject to the cartidge, you would obviuosly use a narrower one for .22 than you would a .45.

I'll dig out one of my punching giudes and get you some measurements.

Ned

[JD Alan]

Thanks for that info Ned. I should have known an experienced guy like you would have had some good info on this subject.

So it sounds like you start with the loop material on the outside of the belt, anchor it down with a Chicago screw, then start weaving in and out through pre-punched slots, then pop it out and anchor it on the other end with another Chicago screw.

I use 38 caliber ammo, so again I assume I could use cartridges to wrap the leather strap around to form the loops. I have a ½ inch bag punch, so I'm wondering it that would be wide enough for use with 38 ammo.   

Talking myself through this, I have no idea of the spacing for the slots, but I guess a guy could work that one out by trial and error, which is how I do most everything!

I look forward to seeing if I've got the general idea down or not

Thanks Ned, and hang in there friend, people are praying for you and your health situation. JD

[Slowhand Bob]

JD, I will need to check some of my stuff and see where its at BUT I think ammo strap weaving is covered in the belt pattern set by Will Ghormley and also in the Holster DVD by Pleasant Vally Saddle Shop.  I have used woven more over the past several years but find that most fokes seem to prefer seams, har har har, but sewn does lay flat and will not print on the back of lined belts.  I use a 3/4" single slot for most cowboy ammunition and make my loop material from 4/5oz leather.

I am really getting beat up right now by a new fast draw holster  but hopefully it will resolve out one way or another within the next few days and i can get back to another simple cartridge slide photo project.  This one was going to be about sewn cartridge loops and show the way I used to hand sew these things.  I thought it was a kinda uniqe and quick method at the time.  Ill do a quick alternate on weaving the cart loops at the same time.  I have not forgotten that I owe you a small package and have promised printed plans to a couple of pards here.  They are printed out and waiting for the lazy one to get into gear.  From what I have seen JD, you are making much better looking WB holsters than I could hope for! 

[Dave Cole]

JD, my mentor taught me to use the slot and weave method many years ago.I do pretty much as Ned and Bob but I usually affix my ends by rivets or sewing.Dave 
Below is a link to a tutorial a frined did, maybe it will help.
http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15872&st=0&p=112971&hl=cartridge%20loops&fromsearch=1&#entry112971

[Ned Buckshot]

OK JD here's some clarification and more info.

Use two slots for every cartidge and when you lace it start from the inside and then up and down around loaded rounds, I use dummys I made up just for this. Also the loop leather is wetted to the same degree you would use for wet molding a holster.

The spacing I use for .38 is 5/16" between the loops. I mark out the spacing on the edge of the belt with a small pencil mark and lay them out with a small T-square where they'll go on the belt. When you punch the slots always make sure sure you punch on the same side of the line. Double and triple check how many slots you punch for 2 slots for each. I've made mistakes more than once by not paying close attention to this detail.

I'm not very good at giving instructions so if I left something out or you have more questions just ask away!

BTW I may go down but I'm not going down with out a fight or a smile on my face!

Ned

[knucklehead]

JD,
I use the weaving method for bullet loops.

decided to do it this way due to not wanting to hand sew all them loops on.

i use 4 oz leather for loop material 3/4" wide. not sure how long to make the strap as i usually have lots of excess after im done weave the loops. have never taken the time to measure the length.

i use 5/8" bag punch because when i weave the leather in it hides the slot. 3/4" slot i can see part of it after i weave the loops.

i weave the leather up from the back around the shell and then back down the same slot. go on to next loop.
i have sewed the ends of the leather loops and have used rivits, conchos to finish off the loops.

hidecrafter has a nice pattern pack for cowboy action shooting accessiores. the pattern pack has small belt pouch, shotgun shell slide and a loading strip.
i use the loading strip slot placement from this pattern pack as the slot placement for my belts with bullet loops.
this slot placement guide works well for 38/357 to 45 long colt.

[JD Alan]

Kuncklehead, thanks a bunch for that info. I really appreciate reading all the different ways that guys do this sort of thing, because it gives me lots of ideas and lots of latitude on how to accomplish making loops.

When I see you at the carving class in March I'll bring back the DVD you loaned me. See you then if not before. JD

[knucklehead]

Yep this website sure does give us newbies some answers.

just gotta love everyone on here that will help out where they can.

one question i have is how do you keep the bag punch lined up straight each time???
straight meaning 90 degrees to the belt. i have tried to use a square to line up against the bag punch but the slot still seams to be off sometimes.

any suggestions would be a great help

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Knucklehead, I use a T square and scribe a light line just a little proud/longer than the size bag punch I'm going to use, you'll find you will now have this line to center your punch on both sides, but remember just a light scratch, just enough so that you can see it on both sides when centered, works for me. if I'm making slits for a two slit bullet loop,( a slit on either side of the bullet ) I'll make the slit with my knife about a 1/16" narrower than the strip of 4 to 5 ounce veg -tan leather I'm using for the bullet loops, and I'll use the smallest hole punch at the end of each slit and punch a hole, but be careful not to make the slit longer, you want a tight loop, the the small hole punch will help to ward off any tearing at the ends, I learned this from Chuck Burrows in one of his post.


                  tEN wOLVES  

[JD Alan]

Now that's great info 10 Wolves, both the bag punch line up, which I also have a problem with, and the hole punches at the ends. It's the little things like this that make this forum so valuable; and its guys like you and so many others here that sharing your skills with us. Thanks 10 Wolves, Ned Buckshot, Knucklehead, Dave Cole, Slowhand Bob; you guys are the best

[Freedom]

JD I have several of these to make today so I'll take the camera along and see if I can't show a little step-by-step.. I'll be back.
Wes

[JD Alan]

Wes, that would be great. I've noticed you have cartridge loops on some of your holsters, which looks like a great idea. I'm looking forward to your next post.

[Freedom]

I'll try to do this with as few words a possible .. what I do is Not the only, or best, way..just how I do it .."most of the time

I still have much to learn so if anyone feels they can improve or correct me on something..then please do.. I want to learn mor too.

Some of my tools.. I have found that stuff used for quilting can be quite handy around the Leather shop.. The (big) rotary cutter, self healing mat, and Clear rule is the best thing for leatherwork.  It will cut through 16/18oz leather in one pass ..
The carpet knife works awsome...."For Carpet"..LOL (I couldn't resist )

[Freedom]

cut your loop leather wider than finish and split it to desired thickness.. It will stretch and narrow as it is split so I start with at least 1 1/4 to have a finish of 3/4.

I use the best leather for my loops.. the stuff cut lenthwise right along the back.just under where I take my belts from.. this will result in loops that last and are easier to  work... cut you loops from the belly and you will have a mess...It is hard enough to edge 4/5oz leather let alone if it is cut from the stretch.

I will be using 3/4x1/8" bag punch for my slots so I will finish cut my loop leather to 7/8..to keep things tight

Rule of thumb for a full weave is 3" per loop.at least for the 41,44,45,and 45-70.. this is a little long but it is way better to have extra at the end of a Qugley belt than to come up short. .. don't ask me how I know...

The 6 loop 44 slide I made here took exactly 16" of loop leather.. I cut mine at 20" to start. this gave me some extra and some to cut a point and skive so it would be easier to lace the loops.

[Freedom]

while my loop leather is moist from splitting I take it to my stone and compress the fiibers with my Cobler's hammer.. this seems to really drive a lot of the stretch out of the leather. I don't ruin the leather here, but I do compress it.. Not nessasary and maybe this is a bad idea...but it is what I do.  When someone gives me $150+ for a belt it is because it took me all day.. little things like this are unnoticed but they sure add time to the product....and hopefully quality.

Cut you leather to the 7/8

I then run my edge groover down the edge and sometimes the stitch wheel. I believe that this adds a nice look but it also compresses the grain a little more along the edges..again to help make the loops last longer... I made this one from an antler but Tandy sells a nice adjustable one.  Now edge the leather.. this can be tricky but if the leather is just the right wetness it is easy.