RANGE REPORT!!! (Pyrodex P, GOEX FFFg, 777 FFFg, and Trailboss)

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I took my chrono with me to the range along with 64 bullets. (a full MTM plastic case)

The bullets were courtesy of Hell Er Highwater.

Oakdale Gun Club in Minnesota. (all testing was on the 50yd range)
56 F outside...(what do you expect? its Nov. in MN)
Cases were Starline 56-50
Primers were Wincester Large Rifle. (not magnum...wan'ted to try stand primers first)
8rds each of the loads, except for the GOEX which was another 25rds.

9.2gr Trailboss
1.62" OAL
335gr (modified Lee) bullet
933fps +/- 15fps. (most shots were right at 933-940fps)
Shot point of aim 100% of the time

40gr of 777 FFFg
1.62" OAL
335gr bullet
1160fps +/- 10fps
Shot a bit high...maybe 2 inches?
(a fair amount of recoil with this one..not for SASS/NCOWS events)

45gr of Pyrodex P
1.62" OAL
335gr bullet
1130fps +/- 20fps
Shot a bit high...same as 777
(not as much recoil as the 777, but, you could feel it...just a bit more than the  loads with TB)

45gr of GOEX FFFg
1.62" OAL
335gr bulllet
780fps +/- 50fps
Shot low...horrible consistency as well. I shot 40 rounds of this hoping my chrono was off...
It kicks like a mule and has poor performance...2 things this shooter doesn't need.

I'll try the GOEX again with magnum primers and maybe try some with "Cartridge" as well

I was seriously UNIMPRESSED with GOEX for the 56-50...not not what I expected.

Pyrodex P and Trailboss were a genuine surprise...a pleasant ones at that!!!
(Pyrodex P is $12/lb and TB is a darn good smokeless load for all my other ammo)

[Two Flints]

Dakota,

Thanks for posting your range results.  I'm sure other members of SSS will have comments to make with regard to their own testing.  I need to get more info on Trailboss and Goex as far as comparing the two; Goex has always been "my favorite" powder when shooting my flintlocks.  Would using Goex FFg have changed your results in any way?

Thanks again for posting your findings.

Two Flints

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I have become less pleased with GOEX as I have loaded it...

Its fine for small carts. I use it it in 44-40 cause its more "correct" for when I shoot BP in SASS matches.

But, I am not a HUGE fan of it. As my results show, FFFg is "supposed" to be hotter than FFg. The barrel is only 20", so, the advantages of FFg are not really there. (IMHO, but I defer final opinion to those that shoot FFg more than I)

I keep coming back to Pyrodex P and Select for BPCR.

For 38-55, my most accurate loads are with "Select" and soft cast bullets.

For my 44-40, again, I use GOEX since my henry likes a slower bullet. (only doing around 1000fps from my 24" barrel)

For all my pistols, though, I am moving on to use "P" or 777, as it has more kick and has more smoke.

And when you think about it, isn't that why we are all here? which is to smoke as much as we can...?

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I would also like to note.


It was 56 F outside... that may have effected the GOEX loads...

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

The GOEX FFFG loads I used were loaded with Large Rifle magnum primers.  I did not chronograph, but they shot the tightest group and were the most consistant.  nTry agaain, if you can with magnum rifle.  I HAD PROBLEMS WITH GOEX just using standard rifle primers in a 50-70.  Very inconsistant.  Magnum fixed it.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Is it true that modern day magnum primers are about where original mercury fluminate primers/priming was way back when?

[O.T. Buchannan]

Dakota, thanks for this info!  My Spencer is original, and my brass was converted from .50-70, so my capacity within my brass is a tad different than yours. 

My load is 35grs. of FFG Goex, a soft lead 340gr. bullet, and a Winchester Large Pistol Magnum Primer.  I get excellent accuracy and very consistent results, although I average about 3 inches high.  This works for ME, as I prefer a six o'clock hold, and my Henry (.44-40) is the same, whereas my 1866 Carbine in .45 Colt shoots point of aim. I ALWAYS use a magnum primer when loading blackpowder cartridges.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

OT-

Is yours a 56-50 or 56-56?

[Harve Curry]

btt

[Lars]

Dakota,

What are the actual weights of the powders used?

I am surprised at your comments about recoil. Especially between the 777 FFG and Pyrodex-P loads, which have only 30 fps difference in average velocity.

FWIW, I could never get Goex FFG to give decent groups in my 12,7X44R (Swedish version of 50-70), even with CCI350 primers. Very best has been 777 FFG, followed by Pyrodex Select.

Lars

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Lars,

The 777 loads had more felt recoil, but, I didn't notice any  more speed due to the less powder.

Neither the 777 nor Pyrodex "hurt" like GOEX.

I had EASILY 45gr of GOEX in there and it was more of a "crack" than anything else.

Personally, I'd rather shoot Pyrodex or 777 in the Spencer. (until I can figure out why the heck the GOEX loads are so much slower)

Even in my 38-55, the GOEX loads are "slower" than my 777 or Pyrodex Select loads. (using Winchester LRM primers)

I will say this...there is nothing like lighting off 7 rounds in a row of 56-50 in a Spencer carbine on the range and have EVERYONE crank their neck to see who has the smoke pole...

No matter what anyone says...Style points COUNT!!!

[Ed Clintwood]

Dakota
when you loaded the Trail Boss, was the case full or was this a trial load?  I was wondering if you had the leeway to play around with this load and go heavier if you wanted to hunt, or in case you liked more thump

[Lars]

Dakota,

Just noticed that you are using 777 FFFG instead of the more commonly used in cartridges FFG. Speaking of felt recoil only, I have to drop the weight of 777 FFG by roughly 15% below that of Pyrodex-P to get same recoil. Never made the comparison with 777 FFG and Pyrodex Select. Downrange performance in this case is same, as best I can tell (no chrono). I have never seen any chrono or chamber pressure data for 777 FFFG versus 777 FFG in cartridges.

I quit using Goex of any kind for any purpose some years ago, just like I quit using Dupont FFFG and FFG when Pyrdoex RS and P came out. I now stick with 777 FFG and Swiss FFG.

Lars