For those that use a modified Lee die...

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Do you have to redrill/tap the threads for mounting the sprue plate after you machined it down?

Also, I am still considering the 330gr Lyman bullet mould instead..it has an exta lube grove and won't require messing around with a mill.

(its also a rather flat point metaplate)

[Hell-Er High Water]

Dakota,

Here is what I did when I modified my Lee mould.  First of all, no milling machine work is involved, you just need access to a lathe, a drill press and a set of drills and taps.

1.  Remove the sprue plate.  This is held in place with a self tapping screw and can be a b***h to remove, but it does come out.

2.  Carefully locate on the top of the mould blocks the centers of the pins that hold the handles to the mould and center punch these locations.

3.  Drill down through these located centers with a 7/64" drill untill you hit the hole that the pin is in and then drive out the handle holding pins with a 3/32" dia pin punch.

4.  In the lathe, in a four jaw check, modify the mould by cutting off as much from the top of the mould as desired.

5.  Using the existing sprue cutter screw hole, deepen this hole using a No. 21 drill and deepen the tapped hole using a 10-32 tap.

6.  Using the holes for the original handle mounting pins, drill from the bottom, using a No. 29 drill, all the the way through the blocks until the drill exits the top of the mould blocks.

7.  Tap these two holes, from the bottom, using an 8-32 tap all the way through the mould blocks.

8.  Open up the holes in the handles to allow the free passage of an 8-32 screw without binding.

9.  I then use the same screws to secure the handles as the ones that are are furnished with a Lyman mould and this now makes the handles removable.

Hope that this helps.

Hell-Er High Water

[Black River Smith]

As High Water discribed.

I removed plate.  Filed, Yes filed.  The top to a new position slightly below the 2nd groove ring.  Created a bevelled base coming from groove ring to grease groove, where I had stopped. Re-tapped with a 10-32. The first two molds I did not have to drill the last I did.  Screwed plate back on.  Thats was it.  First mold was reshaped to a 1/4" nose final weight is 370 gr.  The second was to be a 3/16", but it got messed up, end cutter moved.  Thrid was is left with a 0.128" original nose, final weight ?? at this time. But read next paragraph.

NOW, I do agree with Drydock about needing a larger metplat nose.  Something a little larger than primer size would be good.  I still want the final wt. close to 350 gr.  So I will continue to experiment.

One thing I did determine is:  an OAL of 1.61 to 1.63" is great for my carbine, those bullets just slide right into the chamber with no apparent hang-ups.  Felt like you were closing up an empty gun, just that easy.  So that is the general range I will try to maintain, if 7 bullets fit into the magazine.

These are just my observations, desires and efforts, that I am willing to share.  Not saying anyone else has to do this.  Or go to this level

Black River Smith

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I am going to pick up a mould hopefully this Saturday and see what all I can do with it.

I really don't want to have to do all that extra dilling and taping. I might just through it in a vertical mill/drill press and hog out the material.

For $17, I can play around.

High Water, how much for you to modify a set of moulds for me?

[Black River Smith]

The price was my deciding factor also.  Compared to Rapine $99, even Lyman at ~$65, and Buffalo Arms ~$70,  I thought this was the route for me to get an as close to authentic 350 gr bullet.

I even bought a Navy Arms -- Smith Rifle mold but the bullet was way too short (and probably light) to get to the 1.63" AOL.  Never molded a lead bullet from it.

Look at Midway in Missouri they go for $14.29 but add shipping and min $25 order requirement.


Black River Smith

[Hell-Er High Water]

Dakota,

Thanks for asking, but I am not in the machine shop business.  I'm just a tinkerer and do a little experimenting on my own.  If you have access to a milling machine, which I don't, your idea of setting up the mould and milling off the top without removing the handles sounds like the way to go.  You might not even have to deepen the spru cutter screw hole.  This seems to vary from mould to mould and being that it is a self tapping screw it will probably just cut it's own threads as it is screwed back down.

One thing about the Lee moulds is their price and you can experiment without a big investment.

Hell-Er High Water.

[Black River Smith]

High Water,

I think you stated that you started with the Lee 500gr mold.

What is your finished weight?

Black River Smith

[Hell-Er High Water]

Black River,

My bullets, cast from 20:1 alloy, weigh 335 +/- grains.  I have since started using straight wheel weights for my Spencer loads so they should be a little lighter when cast from this alloy.  I still have several hundred of these bullets in 20:1 alloy to use up so I don't have a weight for them using wheel weights.  I found that the Rapine 512-350-T bullet, cast from straight wheel weights (weighing 358 +/- grains), and loaded with the "Holy Black" shoots as accurate as the 20:1 alloys at the velocities and ranges that we are shooting at so I am going to try the modified Lee bullet, which I use for smokeless loads, with wheel weights the next time I need to cast them.  I hope that this helps and just doesn't muddy the water.

Hell-Er High Water

[Black River Smith]

High Water,

Thanks, no it don't muddy the waters.   I just wish I could see a picture of the mold profile or picture of one of those Rapine bullets.  I asked that question several posts down but never got a response.  Maybe now you can see why I asked the question.  I figured that they had a well build design.

I even designed one using the 'Mountain' software and at $60 it was not costly, just was uncertain about the nose at the time.  Did you measure or do you remember the diameter of the metplat on the Rapine?  Even that would help.

Thanks for the running exchange.

Black River Smith

[Dakota Widowmaker]

BRS,

You said you used just a file to take down the material...a bastard or what? How long did it take?

Regads,

-DW

[Black River Smith]

It takes me about ~2 hours over 2 or 3 evenings(no big rush) to file that short a distance and still maintain level and square.

Yes, you need a bastard for the most part, then a wide fine to get near the end then a fine cut triangle for the final.  Also need a bubble level to level up the mold in a vise and a good square or metal protractor with arm to do final square checking.  Also a good dial caliper for overall depth/length check as you work to final bullet length.

I am not a machinist, my father was a machinist before WWII and carpenter after war.  So I learned general skills.

I also check base of lead bullet after molding and adjust if needed only one of three needed a little tweek.

The one I just finished last week is the 450 gr with nose as is, the final wt came out at 362 gr.  When I test loaded dummies the nose flatten to 3/16".  I am going to work this down a little more and remove the bevel.  One gram is ~15 grains.

Just can't reach the 350 gr mark with this mold and maintain all numbers as listed.


Black River Smith

[Hell-Er High Water]

Black River,

As I measure them, the meplate diameters are 0.290" for the Rapine and 0.295" for the Lee.  Both are large enough so I feel safe with a magazine full under my chin.  I have a good photo of both together in my Kodak computer program but I haven't figgured how to get them transfered to a reply on the forum.  If I ever get it figgured out, I'll post them.

Hell-Er High Water

[Black River Smith]

High Water,

That would be appreciated.  The info you just gave may prompt me to get the 500 gr. Lee.  Since I have to order 2 shellholders at ~$6 a piece and have to have a min order of $25 for Midway I may just have to give it a try.

Sorry, I don't remember if you listed you OAL with that bullet.  If you did not, would you please, else I will go looking.

editted:  High Water, I found your post about the 1.63 OAL out of the mod 500 grainer.  Will just have to give it a try.

Thanks

Black River Smith

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Well, I have the Lee sizer on order...should be in my hands withing 4 weeks.

How long did you folks have to wait for yours? (that use Lee, that is)

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Also, how did folks go about removing the philips screw (self tapping, I guess) that holds the spru plate to the mould block?

That thing is IMPOSSIBLE to remove...

[Black River Smith]

No real direct answer to the screw problem.  The last mold I did was more difficult than the first two.

Maybe try hitting the screw head lightly then try unscrewing it.

Black River Smith

[Hell-Er High Water]

Black River,

I think that I have the picture posting figured out.

The bullet on the left is the 500 grain Lee bullet from an unmodified mould.  The center bullet is the modified Lee bullet.  The bullet on the right is the Rapine bullet.

Hell-Er High Water

[Tuolumne Lawman]

It sure looks like the Raoine takes up a heck of a lot of room in the case that could better be used by powder!  The Buffalo arms bullt has a very round ogive and wide metaplate, but that alloows for less bullet in the case.  Probably why I can get 42 grains of FFFG in tthe case!

[Black River Smith]

High Water

Thanks,  That looks interesting enough to give it a try.  Little difference from the 450gr, just the wider nose.

Thanks for the effort.

Black River Smith

[Dakota Widowmaker]

It sure looks like the Raoine takes up a heck of a lot of room in the case that could better be used by powder!  The Buffalo arms bullt has a very round ogive and wide metaplate, but that alloows for less bullet in the case.  Probably why I can get 42 grains of FFFG in tthe case!

I forgot to ask...do you use a drop tube to load your 56-50 brass?

Also, is the Buffalo arms mould more like the Lee or the Rapine?

I am still curious how the Lyman mould looks.

I think I dorked up my Lee mould...its dropping some sprues out the top a bit. A quick pass with a serated steak knife I got out of a junk drawer cleans it up nice, but, I am just wondering what I did to it to make it so loose.

(I have never had this problem with Lyman or other steel dies...only Lee aluminum)