Can I Run this by the more Knowing ?

[Major 2]

Back in the 70's ,I cast 54 Cal Sharps Conicals for my Percussion Carbine & Mil. Rifle
I hand loaded( literally) 50 cal. Bell Brass for my Spencer ( all I had was Lee hand held capper )

up till now, I shyed away and reisisted the temptation to load for WAS...BUT yesterday   I got sticker shock..
My friendly Gun Shop now charges and may be getting $49.50 for box of Black Hills , 45Colt or 44 Spec or Colt  
He had no 44/40 and said he was sold out, and it was backordered.    Ultra max the same deal.


$49.50 ee yow wwwwwwwwwww with tax that's over a $1.00 a round   He would cut me a deal @ $39.95 if I bought the older stock before his cost rose  

The point: I'm running low on ammo ( maybe enough for 2-3 more shoots )
Guess it may be time for me to reload.

What do I need ? Tumbler ? single stage loader, die's,  hand primer set w/ punch ?

Can you guys help with a shopping list and the best combo & one stop shopping source ? please  
Plan to load 38 spcl. 44 Colt & spcl and 45 Colt... no sub's just BP & maybe smokeless from time to time ..

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

How did you make it this far without reloading?

You will get many suggestions on favorite brands, but almost all sources will give you reasonably good results.  There are three levels of reloading set-ups;
1. VERY basic.  I base my portable set-up on the LEE handpress.  Alternative could be the Lyman 310 tong tool but these are hard to find and limited in that they  take their own series of dies.
2.  Single stage press.  Most beginners start here.  My RCBS press is  40 years old and still performing. They are capable of doing most anything, but can be slow and do require processing your loads in batches.  The advantage for a beginner is that you can see exactly what is going on, and correct any glitches before a dangerous situation developes.
3.  Progressive machines.  These are capable of producing amazing quantities of great ammo.  All are pricey, but some moreso.  You get what you pay for and some experience is desireable before deciding on a set-up.

READ A LOT, and a mentor is very valuable.

[Trailrider]

How did you make it this far without reloading?

You will get many suggestions on favorite brands, but almost all sources will give you reasonably good results.  There are three levels of reloading set-ups;
1. VERY basic.  I base my portable set-up on the LEE handpress.  Alternative could be the Lyman 310 tong tool but these are hard to find and limited in that they  take their own series of dies.
2.  Single stage press.  Most beginners start here.  My RCBS press is  40 years old and still performing. They are capable of doing most anything, but can be slow and do require processing your loads in batches.  The advantage for a beginner is that you can see exactly what is going on, and correct any glitches before a dangerous situation developes.
3.  Progressive machines.  These are capable of producing amazing quantities of great ammo.  All are pricey, but some moreso.  You get what you pay for and some experience is desireable before deciding on a set-up.

READ A LOT, and a mentor is very valuable.

+! on #2.  But your single stage RCBS is practically brand new!  Mine is going on its 51st year. It is an RCBS Model B, Jr. press.  I've loaded everything from 6mm Remington to .56-56 Spencer Center Fire.  I do have to replace the rubber bands that hold the spent primer catcher once in awhile.    I guess the Rockchucker is the current model. I certainly reccomend a beginner go with a single stage press, and definitely buy the Lyman #48 loading manual, and the Speer manual as well. Read the front parts before attempting to buy the press, die, etc. I do recommend RCBS equipment, though others prefer other equipment.

[Jefro]

IMHO the best low cost starter set up is the Lee Classic Turret, can be used as a single stage or turret. The heads are very inexpensive making caliber change a snap. The Lee web site has a video of each step to help get things set up right.  Kempf's Gun Shop has everything thing you need to get started, press, dies, Hornady One Shot case lube, tumbler kit, scales, reloading manuals, dippers, funnel, etc....If you do decide to go with the Lee make sure to include "both upgrades", well worth it. You'll need dippers if you plan to hand dip, or the double disk kit if you use the Pro Auto measure. You're gonna save a ton of money reloading yer own. Give Kempf a call, they can walk you through it. Good Luck
Lee Classic Turret Kit
Modern Relaoding
Extra Turret
Tumbler Combo
Hornady One Shot
Scale
Dies
Dippers, Double Disk Kit, Elec Scales
Lyman 49th

Jefro

[Delmonico]

Don't know how old my RCBS jr is, bought it used in 1980.  Had a major problem about 9 years ago, the blanky blank handle broke, RCBS didn't have one in stock an more since mine was the older model.  So the sent me (free of charge) the whole durn linkage set so it's now as good as new.  BTW I've loaded I'd guess 100,000 rounds on it.  Used to pay for my hobby doing work for a friend who was a comercial loader.

[Major 2]

Sir Charles... I'd had guy that reloaded..I'd give him my brass ...and pay him  
he's cut way back, to the point he's not really interested in doing it anymore.

I either need to find another reloader or do it myself  

[Cookie]

+1 to Jefro.

Lee Classic Turret is a great place to start. It's not much more expensive than the Lee single stage press (and actually cheaper than other brand's single stage presses.)

A turret press is MUCH MUCH faster than a single stage, it works terrific with pistol ammo, and changing dies takes about 5 seconds.

Also +1 to Sir Charles.

He gave a good summary of your options. I just want to add a bit. I've never used a Lee Hand Press, but they're CHEAP, and if you do decide to move to a bench mounted press, you'll already have the dies. Also Lee makes the Lee Classic Loader. They're cheap, and the only tool you need is a mallet. (Between the 2, the Lee Classic Loader is cheaper, but you can't upgrade.)

There's definitely some up-front cost, but you'll save end up saving 75-80% on your ammo costs. So, it doesn't take long at all before the equipment's paid for itself.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Sir Charles... I'd had guy that reloaded..I'd give him my brass ...and pay him 
he cut way back, to the point he not really interested in do it anymore.

I either need to find another reloader or do it myself 

DIY! 

[Major 2]

That's why I'm a asking...

spect that's what I'll do...at some point soon

Gonna look at Cabela's  maybe not so much for buying seeing in one place what the difference's are.

I have Jefro's and your guide above .... but it's still gonna be a learning curve 

[wildman1]

M2 might be of help might not, but see my querie on tumblers in The Darksiders Den.    WM

[Cliff Fendley]

A friend of mine is just getting into Cowboy action and we were just looking at options. My recommendation would be the RCBS Master reloading kit if you can swing it. Everything you need and it comes with the speer loading manual which walks you through reloading from the basics. You can't go wrong with the RCBS.

I bought a kit similar to this years ago when I started loading, only difference is mine came with the original rock chucker press and the current spear manual at the time.

I also have one of the RC Supreme presses like comes with the current kit and it is just as good as the original rock chucker.

You might shop around for the best price, Cabelas has it for 319.

Even if you move to a progressive press at some point you will need many of the items that come with the kit. The progressive is nice once you've got a load all figured out and want to make a bunch but everyone needs a single stage for working up loads or whatever. I've seen people start out by running out and buying a Dillion right off the bat and then don't have powder scales and nick nacks necessary in order to set up a load.

I dont care for the Lee presses but they have good dies. Get the carbide dies for pistol ammo.

[yeti76620]

I dont care for the Lee presses but they have good dies. Get the carbide dies for pistol ammo.

Boy-Howdy Do I Second That On Carbide Dies!!!

[Major 2]

" My recommendation would be the RCBS Master reloading kit if you can swing it. Everything you need and it comes with the speer loading manual which walks you through reloading from the basics. You can't go wrong with the RCBS.....
You might shop around for the best price, Cabelas has it for 319..."

So Everything for $319 ?  did I read that right ?

I have to look at that

[Shotgun Franklin]

I still use my antique Dillon 450 Press. I'd have to guess that I've loaded cost to a 1/4 of a million rounds on it. I loaded for 4 Police Agencies, practice and qualification loads. I've loaded CAS rounds on it for 13 years, for 10 years of that I was shooting 300-400 rounds a month not counting practice stuff. I've worn parts out and Dillon replaces them, no charge. Dillon has an 800 number, if you need something or break something just call'm.
Go find a guy who reloads, someone who's been doing it for many years. Have him teach you how to reload straight wall cases, starting out that's all you need to know.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANY RELOADING DATA OTHER THAN THAT YOU FIND IN MANUALS OF THE MAJOR COMPONENT MAKERS, AT LEAST NOT FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS OR SO.

[Cliff Fendley]

Yes Major the RCBS master kit has about anything you need to load except for the dies and shellholder. Another thing nice about the RCBS hand primers is they use the same shellholder as the dies but you have to buy different ones to go with the Lee.

Besides them being good the Lee dies come with the shellholder. IMO buy the RCBS equipment and Lee carbide dies for the best bang for your buck. You'll have equipment your grandkids grandkids will be using.

I can't say anything but good stuff about Dillion and I have a 550B myself but IMO everyone needs a good single stage press and you need the powder scales and other things to be able to check the loads when setting up a Dillion. Even though progressive presses do it all once set up you still have to be able to measure what your settings are. Even though I have the Dillion for rounds I shoot quite a bit I use my RCBS rock chucker for working up loads and for doing all of my hunting and rifle ammo.

[Delmonico]

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANY RELOADING DATA OTHER THAN THAT YOU FIND IN MANUALS OF THE MAJOR COMPONENT MAKERS, AT LEAST NOT FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS OR SO.

So at what point do you really end up knowing more than the ballistictions who have a pressure lab at their finger tips?

From Birdshot who works for Hodgdon, Dated Nov 9 2005.

How about some thoughts from a ballistician who has a lab at his disposal?

1) There is no hard and fast way for anyone to predict exactly how a specific load will act in YOUR firearm.  We do our load development in a standardized barrel with standardized MINIMUM chamber, throat and bore.  We know that YOUR chamber. bore and throat are not going to give the same results.

2) Data supplied from a lab is nothing more than a report of what happened with one component set in one barrel in one set of conditions on one specific day.  If we repeat the exact same test and change ANY variable, we will get a different answer.

3) A LARGE percentage of SASS/CAS shooters are new to the world of shooting and to reloading.  A new reloader should always learn to load on a single stage press and should always follow the published loads.

4) Experienced loaders and shooters ( those who have worked with variations in components and conditions) MAY be able to get away with developing their own data.  Developing data in a center fire rifle cartridge is pretty easy.  Dealing with the very fast burning powders used in shotgun shells and handgun rounds can have devastating results.

5) The first reeliable sign of high pressure in a revolver load is when the firearm fails .  Bad news for the shooter and all of those around him.  Anyone who will tell you they can "read" primers and case expansion in pistol cartridges to tell the pressure is a danger and should be avoided.  It cannot be done reliably.

6) AS noted above, the tendency of SASS/CAS shooters to load ultralight loads is stupid.  The average shooter will not benefit from this.  More energy spent training would be a far better investment for most shooters than trying to find the absolute lightest load.

7) A load that you have worked down to today may be great but it may well be a hazard when the ambient temperature drops.  Primers are not as potent in the cold, the elasticity and plasticity of the case and primer change with the temperature.  All handgun/shotgun powders will change ignition and burn characteristics as the temperature changes: some much more than others.

Cool You, the loader, are legally responsible for damage or injuries caused by your ammunition.  Never give or sell your ammo to another shooter unless you are a licensed ammunition manufacturer with the BATF.  Not only are you liable for injury but if you sell ammo without the license, you may serve time in the big house.

9)  Loading your own ammo should be a safe and rewarding experience.  Why go out of your way to make it difficult or dangerous.  Use the loads supplied by a laboratory and have confidence that you have the best custom ammo around.

10)  As far as not allowing loads to be posted on web sites goes, it will become more common.  Most web sites are offered by good people with good intentions.  Look at the owners of this site.  BUT, they have other lives and are not prepared to review every load posted to make certain that no decimal is misplaced or that a crank has not knowingly placed a dangerous load on the site.

11) REMEMBER - IN THE REAL WORLD, THERE ARE VERY FEW EXPERTS ON LOAD DATA.  THERE ARE CERTAINLY MORE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE AND LESS EXPERIENCED PEOPLE BUT FEW EXPERTS.  ON THE INTERNET, WHERE PEOPLE CAN HIDE IN ANONIMITY, THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF FOLKS WHO WILL GIVE THEIR OPINION AS FACT.

OK, OFF MY SOAPBOX,

BIRDSHOT

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I like some of the comments in Del's long post. Here are MY words interpreting them;

There are few experts (on forums?) just folks with more experience and some with less.

...Hiding in anonymity...

...Providing opinion as fact....

We all bear responsibility for our words and have to take care.

[Delmonico]

I like some of the comments in Del's long post. Here are MY words interpreting them;

There are few experts (on forums?) just folks with more experience and some with less.

...Hiding in anonymity...

...Providing opinion as fact....

We all bear responsibility for our words and have to take care.

Well said, one can work between the minimums and maximums in lab tested loading data, but to go over or under is never a good idea.  Used to be everyone wanted to go over max for more power, today a lot want to go under minimum for less recoil.  These Nitro powders have to stay with in certain pressure ranges to burn right, if you want more power get a bigger cartridge, if you want less then you need a smaller one.

[Cookie]

Yes Major the RCBS master kit has about anything you need to load except for the dies and shellholder. Another thing nice about the RCBS hand primers is they use the same shellholder as the dies but you have to buy different ones to go with the Lee.

That was true for the old Lee Auto-Prime. But, the new Lee Auto-Prime XR uses standard shell holders.

[Cliff Fendley]

That was true for the old Lee Auto-Prime. But, the new Lee Auto-Prime XR uses standard shell holders.

Thats good to know, glad they finally got with the program.