Shooting cap and ball with paper cartridges

Mako · June 14, 2011, 08:09:05 PM

SGT.,
I'm not making them for sale. But, you are in luck, the best loader on the market and the one being sold by the best one to do business with is this one:

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=1302742a-9e12-41e5-881f-f99340c6d9e6

His is a better choice for you than the style I have. Mine is optimized for the Colt's '60, '51, '61 and the .44 and .36 caliber Remington New Models. Dick's will fit your Dragoon and the Remington Pocket Pistol you have

Dick Dastardly is one of our good pards here. He is an honest businessman and provides products that many of us use.

He is also the source for the Big Lube molds many of us use. If you cast for your Henry, then he has the perfect bullet mold for it.

Regards,
Mako

By the way this is my cylinder loader:

SGT John Chapman · June 14, 2011, 08:29:05 PM

I shoot a 250gr slug of soft lead and it has a hollow base to it,.....I can get a full 40gr of 3F Black under it. It's a copy of the original 45 Colt bullet. Thanks for the link to the loader,....I like the look of yours too.....

rebsr52339 · July 28, 2011, 06:16:58 PM

SGT John Chapman, thanks for your photos, instructions and inspiration for making these paper cartridges and especially the boxes and labels. This is a photo of my "prototype" and I have 10 more cut out ready to be assembled. I am having so much fun with this, I have made over 200 rounds so far. Thanks.

SGT John Chapman · July 28, 2011, 06:36:05 PM

Very good Sir!!,... How many have you fired?

rebsr52339 · July 29, 2011, 12:26:58 AM

I have fired about 30 of them so far. I have tried poking them with a small wire thru the nipple before capping and they fire OK. I have fired them without poking and it works just as good. Not one of them failed to fire.

I have an aluminum tool with two different dia. ends that I use to wrap the "paper" around to accommodate the Remington (Lee) type and the Colt type bullets. I can sit in front of the TV and watch the news and make dozens of the paper tubes. The tubes are not tapered but look OK and load without any trouble.

I had to reread your description on installing the string in the box, but I got it and it works fine. As I mentioned before this is now fun. I can now average about one complete bullet every 90 seconds or less, although I do about 25 at a time. Really not to bad when you think about it.

I'll post some photos of my process a little later.

Cuts Crooked · July 29, 2011, 04:52:25 AM

It hasn't disappeared Sarge, ya jist gotta search harder:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9695.0.html

rebsr52339 · July 29, 2011, 06:30:49 AM

Here are some photos of my "stuff" and the tools I use. 003 is a general photo. 004 shows the aluminum tool with a paper wrapped around it before I trim the end. 005 shows the end trimmed. There is a grove in the tool that I rotate an xacto blade in to trim the end. See the following post for the "rest of the story".

rebsr52339 · July 29, 2011, 06:33:48 AM

006 shows a bullet on the end of the tool with the paper pushed up prior to gluing. I dab on several spots of white glue on the exposed band and then rotate and slide up the paper tube to spread the glue around. 007 shows the bullet, paper and tool after I finish rotating it between my fingers to set the glue. 008 is a shot of the tool with the two dia. ends for the different style bullets.

After I slide the paper tube-bullet asm off the tool and get a bunch of them I then fill the tubes with just 22 gr of Pyrodex P. I tap the powder down. Then while the paper tube is long I apply paper glue around the perimiter of the tube, and then look at the tube and cut it about 3/16 of an inch above the powder. Then you just have to fold it over three times and stand it on end till the glue sets.

This has realy turned into a great project that can be done at your leisure because after you have the bullet tube assemblies you can complete 5, 10, or whatever number you want when you get some spare time.

I'm sure I may have forgotten something so ask if you need to. Be glad to help.

SGT John Chapman · July 29, 2011, 06:51:43 AM

Looks like you are doing real good,....Glad you like them....

Tsalagidave · July 29, 2011, 02:40:01 PM

I've started making combustible envelope cartridges a while ago with moderately desirable results. I decided to try it again and it has been amore interesting process this time around. After examining some originals and seeing how others have done it on sites such as this (thanks guys).

Some essentials that I have found to work for me in regards to authenticity and functionality are in selecting the right paper and moulds this time around.

I use 9lb Onionskin Paper (About $30 per ream with shipping-help me if you have a better source). I cut 1" x 1.25" x1.5" trapezoid slips along with 3/8" ends and treat it for over an hour in a saltpeter solution.

I roll them on a 3/8" dowel that tapers to about 1/3" at the point. I roll with the 1.25"side forming a perfect rim at the tapered end and glue it with sodium silicate. Then, I remove the tube, form the 3/8" end over the point of the dowel, put a thin rim of sodium silicate inside the tapered end of the tube and gently refit it over the dowel, twisting it gently into place. Then I roll the dowel, putting pressure on the edges so that the glue will stick.

I use conical balls from an original Colt mold (approx .375) and I also use a .375 Lee conical mold. I find that the lees load more easily for the range and practice but the original mould rounds are more typical for living history.

I use an original colt powder flask to charge the rounds with about 20 grains of 3F powder.
I treat the outside base of the bullets with sodium silicate and fit them right into the tube. (I rarely need to really trim the edges.

Next, I will be cutting blocks and drilling them with a 2/5" bit to simulate the 1859 split top boxes made by Colt. After loading them, all I need to do is add the copper break wire, fold/glue the label and shellack it. All I need now is a reproduction Colt ammunition box to keep them in.

-Dave

SGT John Chapman · July 29, 2011, 03:42:14 PM

Best paper I have found to date, Believe it or Not, is coffee filter,.....it burns up the cleanest and is very strong for paper and is easy to nitrate in solution since it's meant to be wet......

The whole secret is to make the envelope first with only the one layer of paper on the bottom,......this way the cap can burn through very easily. Most people go wrong starting on the bullet end wrapping the paper around the slug,....charging it then twisting the tail closed. This creates too much paper for the cap to flash through so you get a FTF a lot of times even if you run a pick....

Mako · July 29, 2011, 06:29:14 PM

Sgt. Chapman,
Good advice. I'm going to have to try it now. Coffee filters vary quite a bit by paper type and thickness. Is there a brand you have found works best?

Thanks for all of your work and the thoughtful posting.

~Mako

SGT John Chapman · July 29, 2011, 07:03:24 PM

Yes,.....They were Brew Rite (tan colored) Natural/unbleached coffee filters made by Rockline, Inc. out of Sheboygan, WI.....
I even have some film clips of burn rates I'll post after bit if you like,.....

Mako · July 29, 2011, 08:25:41 PM

Quote from: SGT John Chapman on July 29, 2011, 07:03:24 PM
Yes,.....They were Brew Rite (tan colored) Natural/unbleached coffee filters made by Rockline, Inc. out of Sheboygan, WI.....
I even have some film clips of burn rates I'll post after bit if you like,.....

Ohhhh...Sgt.

You know what to say. I would love to see the burn rates and a table if you have it as well.

~Mako

SGT John Chapman · July 29, 2011, 08:40:06 PM

I have no tables,...but these measured 1"x1.5" and you can visually see the difference,....I think the weave on the filter is bigger so the coffee can pass and I also think it abasorbs more of the saltpetre in those spaces and absorbs is more evenly.....

Mako · July 29, 2011, 11:40:28 PM

Sgt. Chapman,
#3 looks pretty fast and complete, very little residue. Tell us more about each of the three including paper type, potassium nitrate solution recipe etc.

~Mako

SGT John Chapman · July 30, 2011, 10:02:02 AM

The first two are Bugler cigarette paper in a, 1 table spoon per cup of water, solution of Saltpetre, soaked 15 minutes then dried in a dehydrator.
It is not as even of a burn which is obvious from the third video which is the same except for the paper.....which is the above listed coffee filter..... the ash left from the filter was basically a smudge suspended in air as lite as it was....

SGT John Chapman · July 30, 2011, 10:08:08 AM

OK,.....Here below is the same videos but that I just put on You-Tube so you can enlarge them so things can be seen better....

Paper 1

Paper 2

Filter paper

rebsr52339 · July 30, 2011, 04:09:06 PM

Thanks for the added info SGT. I am going to make a new tappered paper forming tool to roll the papers and see how that works out. Man this is fun.

Tsalagidave · August 02, 2011, 06:55:42 PM

I use 9lb. onionskin paper soaked 1-hour in a saltpeter solution (use pure bottled water and dissolve potassium Nitrate into it until you have a full solution with undissolved partlices at the bottom). I press about 30 1" x 1.5" panels at a time on paper towels sandwiched between two old hardcover books. (I later destroy the paper towels in my BBQ pit) I make 30-120 at a time. I make a tapered cup on a 3/8" to 1/3" tapered dowel. They have the same look-feel as the originals; they are relatively durable and they completely desintigrate on firing. I use sodium silicate for glue.

-Dave