Tumbling brass in Ceramic Porcelain media.

[Dick Dastardly]

I've been using this stuff for years now.  Every now and then I get a batch of brass that just doesn't come clean.  It will have a dingy gray film.  The brass is clean, but it has this ugly film.

Cut to the chase.  Since Wisconsin has outlawed phosphorus in our household cleaning stuff, it doesn't work as well as it used to.  Same goes for the CP tumbling fluid concentrate that is part of the DD Brass Cleaning Kit.

I shot a match yesterday and did something slightly different.  I added a pinch of TSP to my batch process.  WOW!  Three hours later my brass was absolutely clean outside and inside.  I can't legally add TSP to the CP fluid concentrate, but I can say that it absolutely works wonders.

TSP = Trisodiumphosphate, an industrial cleaner used by the painting industry to clean buildings etc.  It is available on the internet from a variety of sources.  It's not the stuff being sold in stores in Wisconsin now.  The TSP "substitute" now being sold is a kiss your sister, doesn't work well rip off.

DD-DLoS

[Jed Cooper]

DD, I have been shooting BP for sometime. I'm interested in going to the ceramic media system. Been doing it the hard way. works, but inside doesn't look clean. And I have to run them 12 hrs. or so.  Will my vibratory tumblers work OK, or do I have to use a rotary unit. If so, where do I find one?    Thanks in advance,   Jed

[Noz]

Jed, I bought into DD's cleaning program. It took some time for the me, the cleaning solution, media and tumbler to get themselves organized but now dirty 44-40 BP brass goes in, tumbles and 3 hours later sparkles. I couldn't be happier. I've found that for some reason if you over fill a little with the liquids, the media doesn't stick inside the brass.

[Deadeye Dick]

Noz,
That's handy to know. How much overfill? I do have problems with ceramic media sticking inside by 44-40 cases. Just takes me a little longer to get the media out. I generally try to add just a little more liquid in volume than brass. The ceramic media does a great job. Wish it was a little shorter though.
Deadeye Dick

[Jed Cooper]

Are you folks using vibrating, or rotary tumblers?    Jed

[Dick Dastardly]

Your tumbler needs to be able to run a wet load.  Both tumblers & shakers will work as long as they can run wet loads.

Cabelas handles Thumler units at a fair price.  Here's a place that has the Thumler AR12 unit at a fair price also. http://www.erocktumbling.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=4

FWIW, From now on I'm going to be putting a pinch of TSP in my brass bottle.

DD-DLoS

[August]

Dick, I thought tri-sodium phosphate was illegal in Wisconsin.  Where'd you find it???

[Dick Dastardly]

Not illegal to buy, illegal to sell.  But, it's available on the net.  Send me an emule and I'll dig out the URL for the supplier.

DD-DLoS

[Montana Slim]

Diluted phopshoric acid should work well also.
You can probably find the concentrated acid at most autobody supply shops. It's used as a metal etch/degreaser prior to priming bare metal.

I started using this last year as a final soak before the brass goes into my tumbler.

I use about a 10% solution & soak for 1-2 hrs after soaking/rinsing in plain water. 15+ yr old brass tumbled in dry walnut or corncob, with polishing dust added, is coming out quite clean.

Regards,
Slim

[Noz]

DD, I put equal parts of brass and media then make sure that the mixture is covered at least an inch by the liquid.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I haven´t had a stain yet that Dollar Store lemon juice concentrate won´t remove. Cheap & no harsh chemicals to breathe or handle. 

[Fairshake]

I will add to what the FCK posted. The lemon juice is one of the ingredients that i put my brass in at the range. I have a 2 gal bucket that I put in the following
2oz of Lemon juice concentrate (cheap store brand will work)
2oz of Lemon Pine Oil
2oz of Dawn or Palmolive with OXY
1 gal water
Each shoot that I attend is at least one hour drive and in the back of my 3/4 ton truck they get a washing action.
I then rinse them very good as the water will be black and stink like crazy.
Place them in my Thumbler's tumbler and add ceramic and just enough water to cover the media. I then add a squirt and a half of that Dawn or Palmolive with OXY. After about a 3-4 hour turning the brass insides are just as shinning as the out side. The lemon juice along with the other ingredients cleans better than any thing else that I have tried.

[Dick Dastardly]

Noz, that's the right amount of liquid.  It keeps the dirt in suspension as the CP media does it's work.

Thanks for the lemon juice input pards.  I'll give that a try also.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

DD;  Maybe you should collect some of that Icelandic Volcanic "ceramic media"?!

[Cactus Cris]

DD--Went to hdw store and got me some TSP granules  put a small amount w/water- added my brass, shook, let it sit for 1 hr--lo & behold- it got warm.  Drained, flushed w/hot water, stuck brass in my Dilon cleaner w/walnut, ran for 5 hr overnight- The brass was clean & shiney inside & out.  Seems to work great.

PPS--any word on them 6 hole rnd ball molds?  Know you are getting tired of hearing about it.

[john boy]

Gent's, if one is going to use TSP with either your wet or dry case cleaners ... a 1% solution creates a pH of 12.  So don't over do it using STP
BTW Dick, thanks for posting up about STP.  Have read about it's capability to clean brass but never tried it.  Will give it a go in the next rotary batch of burnishing solution.

Also you mentioned the gray film on the cases.  Go you one better - black brass.  Probably due to not changing the burnishing solution.  Believe I was on the 5th or 6th time using the some solution

[Fairshake]

John Boy, I change mine out after every batch and the brass looks new inside and out.

[will52100]

I'll have to give the TSP a try, I use it to anadize titanium, basicly a super concentrated bath of water and as much TSP that will disolve and hange the ti in it and run a current through it.  Depending on the current depends on what color it will turn.

I've been using dawn and a good squirt of bargan basment lemmon juice.  3 hours or so and the brass sparkles.  Love the ceramic media.  Did find out it didn't like 7.62x54R brass, what a pain to dig them out.

[john boy]

Dick, thanks for the TSP tip.  I tried it today with a batch of old 45-70 R-P's that were hanging around.  I put a 1/4 teaspoon of TST in each rotary tumbler with the media and burnishing solution.  Ran the tumblers for 4 hours.  Would have been a 3 hr run, but was called to dinner.  Anyway, it works great.  Normally with just the burnishing solution the inside walls of the cases still have traces of 'dragon blood' coloring on them.  With the TSP, almost perfectly clean, say in the 95% range.  Visible dragon blood (brownish-red) coloration - gone.  Primer pockets and outside walls of the cases looked the same shiny coloring that I normally get without the TSP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate

[Dick Dastardly]

My experience with TSP is limited, but encouraging.  I'll now tumbling a batch of smokeyless powder range brass as a control.  I'll take before and after photos and post them.  I'll also post the procedure that I've nailed down so others can duplicate my results.

DD-DLoS