44 heel base bullet comparisons

[Hoof Hearted]

So we have discussed the Heel Base bullet in a number of threads here recently.
I figured I'd try the picture thing again. After looking in the training barn, then the house, then scratching my head, I finally called the wife on her cell phone (always safer than face to face conversation) and she told me it was in her purse, in her car Then I had to carefully detach the ear phones, a hair brush and one of those b!tch clip/hair things from the strap, in the dark (thank god I carry a tactical flash light in my back pocket). So I got lucky and the dang camera had a charge and the flash card was in it............. Woo Hoo



This is a pic showing three different, currently available bullets that I use. The one in the center is Old West (Bernie Rowles) 248gr "Remington" bullet. It is avalable in multiple cavity (I use two cavity) and casts VERY WELL. I find it to be very accurate and with the two lube grooves it carries enough lube for BP and smokeless. The bullet on the left is the exact same mould that has been modified for my Henry "Flat". It weighs 225gr +or- and eliminates the concerns of "chain fires" in the Henry magazine. The bullet on the right is Rapine 415210 and approximates the Colt type 44 round very well. It has a pointed ogive and one lube groove.

Hope this helps!
HH

[Galloway]

How's that bullet with one groove manage fouling? I cant see how the original ever did.

[Hoof Hearted]

How's that bullet with one groove manage fouling? I cant see how the original ever did.

Good question
Of course "manage" is the key word here, "ever" being second. Fouling would be dependent on use. SASS or other competitions are relatively "new". I would assume if back in the day one was to anticipate fouling, one would lube from the chamber mouth end over the loaded round, just like cap and ball. Barrel fouling can be kept low with clean burning powder and full loads with tight crimps. Revolver action fouling with loose tolerances and correct design.

Lots of threads here with many different ideas regarding ths subject

Funny, most period cartridges didn't even have lube

[Fox Creek Kid]

How's that bullet with one groove manage fouling? I cant see how the original ever did.

A trick is to dip the bullet end of the loaded cartridge in hot lube for a second or two. That way the entire bullet end is coated. It's messy but the results are worth it. <modsnip> 

[Hoof Hearted]

HH - Is that Rapine bullet on the right a flat base or hollow base?  If flat, how's the accuracy at 7-10 yds?

FLAT and it shoots OK.

All my readings on the heeled bullets says a bullet of that design will be less accurate due to a small bearing surface (compared to designs like the 44 Henry Flat & 44 Remington shown).  Bernie is sending me some samples of his lighter flat base "Colt style" bullets to try in my pistols before I commit to a mould design.  Just wondering what kind of results you had.

Remember it has just as much "bearing surface" as a round ball. Balance would be more important and it has more mass towards the front (short heel).

Is that center case a shortened 44 Colt, or a 44 Russian?  It looks much shorter than the other two.

Yea, it's a Russian case (I grabbed one from the wrong box) but it's just to show the loaded round.

Seth IMHO you will be happier with the remington design. You get twice the lube, twice the bearing surface, and it fits more applications.
You have dovetailed "taller" sights on those R&D pistols, right?

[Hoof Hearted]

Yep.  Dovetailed and tall front sights.  Oddly, one gun shoots POI=POA.  The other shoots about 4" low and 2" left (7 yds offhand).
The Colt and Remington bullets produced identical results - same POI, same group size, etc.

Seth

In my experience pressure differences can cause POI differences between otherwise identical pistols. This will be more noticeable at CAS distances.

Here's what I do:

First
Make the muzzle crown the same, exactly.

Second
Cut forcing cones the same (I like looong forcing cones with 11 degree taper).

Third
Make sure the cylinder gap is the same.

Fourth
Uniform the chamber (cylinder) throats.

Fifth
Hold yer tongue just right!

HH

[Hoof Hearted]

ETA a link for resources:

http://www.cartridgeconversion.com/