Well, I've seen just about everything now.

[Fingers McGee]

 

Found this listing on GunBroker just now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116818855

What'll they come up with next? 

[Fox Creek Kid]

What's next, an in line ML machine gun? 

[Rusty Spurless]

Im tempted to bid on it just for the "curiosity" factor

[Gun Butcher]

  After laughing for ten mins. I just have one question.        What class would that come under

[Paladin UK]

I am totally at a loss as to WHY!!!!!!  Why not load yer .45 cases with 777!! and pop a DD ROA atop `n` ya got yerownself SEVEN BP rds!!!

That said, its a brill piece of engineering, and it has got to be collectible!!

Paladin (Whats amazed with what folks kin conjure up  ) UK

[Sgt. Jake]

   What class indeed, Frontiersman Wild Bunch  !                           Adios  Sgt.Jake

[Fingers McGee]

I am totally at a loss as to WHY!!!!!!  Why not load yer .45 cases with 777!! and pop a DD ROA atop `n` ya got yerownself SEVEN BP rds!!!

That said, its a brill piece of engineering, and it has got to be collectible!!

Paladin (Whats amazed with what folks kin conjure up  ) UK

I've done that.  777 and a 160 gr LRN in an AMT Hardballer.  Functioned without any trouble and rang steel every pull of the trigger.

FM

[Mako]

Gun Butcher,
I'm not sure what "class" that would be.  You'd have to cap them after the buzzer otherwise you'd have hammers down on loaded chambers abd you'd have to reload the other eight rounds on the clock.  You'd need and hour glass to time the shooter...

Besides it's post 1899 and not a revolver, but it's still fun to think about.

~Mako

[Mako]

I've done that.  777 and a 160 gr LRN in an AMT Hardballer.  Functioned without any trouble and rang steel every pull of the trigger.

FM

Fingers,
Not trying to "one up you," but I shot an  IDPA match a several years back with the Real Powder in a 5" 1911.  I loaded 100 rounds with H&G 68 SWC (200gr) and a case full of FFFg.  (It's been a long time so don't hold me to my memories of the load and velocity)  I don't remember the load but it must have been somewhere around 16 grains .  I seem to remember  the velocity was in the mid to high 600s fps range, because other shooters were accusing me of shooting a "minor" caliber.  Taper crimps don't work well to help you build pressure, and I was tempted to try a slight roll crimp, but I was worried about reliability.   Only failure was a "tap and rack" clearable stove pipe somewhere between 30 and 40 rounds.  I started cleaning the barrel, breech  and magwell after each stage and finished the match.

I got the idea from another shooter who said he had had used 230gr RN in a S&W  25 at a match on a bet.  You could run a wheelgun all day long with that load. Someone said you couldn't do that with an automatic and I considered that a challenge. The only change I made to the pistol  was using a 12# or 14# recoil spring  intended for  one of my .38 Super race guns instead of the standard spring.  I was worried about a low recoil impulse, but I might have been better served using a standard 16# spring.  I failed to mention I had one round slow to chamber, I could literally see it moving forward in slow motion as it came to battery (crud build up in the chamber at the headspace area.)

The recoil is different, it is "slower" feeling and definitely soft (a push instead of a sharp whack).   I'm sure you can't limp wrist these loads and I never did try it "unsupported weak hand."   It definitely sounded different, great boom and smoke.!  I wasn't shooting Cowboy at the time, so it was just a novelty.  I have shot Black Powder and C&B since I was a kid so I  knew I needed a packed case and I even had the powder available.  I should have made a few wagers, no one thought I could even finish the match, much less be competitive.  I do remember I finished 11th out of 28 shooters, gave me crowing rights for a few months.

I may have to work up a reliable load and try it at a "Wild Bunch" type of match some time.  Hmmmmm...I need to get a weak side holster and do it Gunfighter style!  Oh, now I have a project.
~Mako

[Noz]

Looks like a wonderful solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Gun Butcher]

   Sgt.Jake, that FWB class sounds like it would work, their combining everything else.

  Noz, I think you hit the nail on the head, it's goota be one of them " I'll bet you couldn't" kinda things. 

[Fingers McGee]

Mako,
I was concerned - no that's not the correct term; wondering, yeah, that's it - I was wondering whether the recouil spring in the pistol would allow it to function with the 777 load.  I was loading about 20gr of powder with the Mastercraft 160 grain LRN.  I wasnt trying an endurance run with the load - only loaded 10 rounds - just wanted to see if it'd work.  A also loaded a dozen or so other loads with Accurate N100 and Unique powder with 160 and 200 grain bullets.  Even teh lightly loaded smokeless rounds functioned ok in the pistol.  Had two failures to feed out of 100 rounds that I attributed to me limp wristing them.  I didnt try the 200 grain bullet with 777 during tat session.  I'm going to the next time though.

Regards,

Fingers (Wild Bunch Frontier Cartridge Duelist and sometimes B-Western Frontiersman) McGee

[Mako]

Fingers,
I like your "(Wild Bunch Frontier Cartridge Duelist and sometimes B-Western Frontiersman)" classifications.  I shoot what I call Frontier Gunfighter, which of course isn't really a class, but I almost always trounce any Gunfighters who I am technically competing against.

I think more people should shoot creative categories. 

Life is too short to spend it shooting "traditional."   Hmmmmmmph, "TRADITIONAL."  Now there's an oxymoron for yah.  It's about as traditional as designer jeans.

I'm going to pull a bullet and see what my load actually was, I dug through my old ammo tonight and found 18 rounds of that Holy Black .45 ACP ammo I loaded 12 years and 4 months ago according to the box label. I can't remember which spring I used I usually used a 12# spring on my compensated .38 Supers, but I have 13s, 14s and 15s as well.  I'm thinking I tried the 14# and it worked so I stuck with it.  But I still think a heavier spring would probably be better.  My usual test for the minimum spring is one round with an empty magazine, shoot it weak hand and let it recoil. If it doesn't lock the slide back then go down one pound lighter until it does.  I then strip eight rounds from a magazine one at a time from slide lock to make sure it chambers them all. If not I move back up one and try again. Chambering trumps locking back, and that is my deciding factor if I am on the "fence." I don't use cut down springs on a 5 inch pistol, you can get full length springs in almost every weight from 7 # to 28#.  I didn't do my usual test because I expected the pistol to foul and wanted a bit lighter spring.  Looking back on it now that may have been backwards though because a fouled 1911 has trouble going into battery.


~Mako

[Fingers McGee]

Mako,

This was the first time this pistol had been out of the safe in at elast 5 years, maybe longer.  Just don't shoot "modern" stuff anymore.  I havent the fintest idea what the rating on the stock Hardballer spring is.  I probably should get an assortment if I'm gonna start shooting it again.  The 777 lads were just for grins; but I may load up a couple hundred and use it at the next Steel Challenge match.  Give my Glock & Ruger Mark I Target a rest, and see the expression on everyones face when the smoke clouds billow out.  .

Fingers

[Deadguy]

Looks like a wonderful solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

That thing does indeed solve a real problem.  It is a "UK legal" 1911 conversion!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I love my 1911 ... but not THAT much.




Now, making working loads like what Fingers and Mako are talking about - that's different!

[Mako]

Well I pulled three old Holy Black .45 ACP rounds I mentioned in a previous post above and this is what I found.

• The powder was barely compressed, it wasn't packed hard enought to require me to use a pick to dislodge it.
• had a hard time getting accurate volume measurements because some of the grains were stuck together so at the end I took all three together and I got what appears to be between 50  and 51 grains by volume (maybe 17 grains per case).
• Each charge weighed approximately 16.2 Grains by WEIGHT
• 1.2ccs of Skirmish FFFg weighs an average of 17.8 gr and 1.2ccs of Goex FFFg weighs an average of 17.5gr (5 measurements).
• The powder was probably Goex, I know it was FFFg so I'm going to say it was 16.5 to 17.0 grains by volume.
• Using new powder the case will hold 19 gains to about 3/16" from the top.
• 20.0 grains looks like a possible candidate for a heavy compressed load (but it would require a roll crimp).
• I  may have to back off to 19.0 grains because I use a taper crimp on .45 ACP, and the bullet may get pushed back out.
• Bullets were all H&G 68 SWC (200 gr) seated to 1.25 OAL (I shot 10s of thousands of these per year with W231 when I competed).

I'll set up a pair of 1911s for BP and make a report in the future on what I find.  I need to chronograph them as well.  I will probably try some 225 or 230 grain RN bullets, I think these might give me a better impulse with the Holy Black.  I'm thinking 17.5 to 18.5 grains this time.  I also have a can of Pinnacle I never use, it would be cleaner, but it sort of defeats the purpose of making a BP .45 ACP load. 

I'll betcha I could run a pair of these in a Wild Bunch format since most stages only require 5 rounds from each pistol.  I would to have to shoot in "Modern Class" though, almost all of my slides have front serrations and the only ones without beavertail safeties are commanders or unshot collector guns.  Since you have to start in condition 3 with the pistols that would preclude two 1911s in Gunfighter style. I guess theoretically you could pull one 1911 load a round then draw a revolver with the free hand, but I'm sure there is probably some rule against that. If I could do Gunfighter it would be an interesting project otherwise it is just sumthin' different.

Later,
Mako

[Adirondack Jack]

17 grains of FFG Goex ought to be OK, but with that 200, 18 of swiss would cycle like GI ball

[Mako]

Jack,
I'm not sure I can load 18 grains with a taper crimp.  I might have to compress my powder first like Grape Shot does. Well I will try and see what I can do.  As you saw in my post I said it would be a heavy compressed load, those are the kind I prefer but they are with hard roll crimps.

I guess for the few rounds I would need for one or two Wild Bunch matches I could compress loads.  Hmmmmmm, maybe if I added a compression rod on stage 3 instead of the Powder Check.  That might work at that.

Thanks,
Mako

[Adirondack Jack]

Jack,
I'm not sure I can load 18 grains with a taper crimp.  I might have to compress my powder first like Grape Shot does. Well I will try and see what I can do.  As you saw in my post I said it would be a heavy compressed load, those are the kind I prefer but they are with hard roll crimps.

I guess for the few rounds I would need for one or two Wild Bunch matches I could compress loads.  Hmmmmmm, maybe if I added a compression rod on stage 3 instead of the Powder Check.  That might work at that.

Thanks,
Mako

If ya use a .45 ACP sizer and expander (not Colt), and a taper crimp with a bit of authority (but still enough there to headspace on the rim), neck tension will hold em.