Remington Percusion caps

[Irish Ike]

Can anyone tell me the difference between #10 and #11 Remington caps. I know it sounds dumb. I've been using #10's for years. I need to replace some nipples and everyone who sells them says the Trescos use #11's but on the wire everyone says they are using #10's.

Help
Ike

[Justice Johnson]

Irish, the number 10 remingtons fit the treso #11 nips perfectly, the #11 rem cap appears to have a shorter cup. Been using the combo of rem 10's and the treso for years, good combination.

regards

[Black Powder]

I started with a different brand and recently switched to Remington, but stayed with #11 ("cause that's what it's supposed to take")  I replaced the nipples with Treso's (cause now I'm gettin' serious).

Last shoot, I had some issues.  Cap fell off (+5), cap fell into the hammer area (+15).  Never fired my C&B for speed and cocking with the barrel pointed down isn't my standard approach for slow target shooting.  So I was pretty hosed for the day, still fun, but had the air let out of me a bit.

And then to the rescue, a pard gave me a capper full of #10s.  "Try these."  I listened.  I followed the instruction.  I expect could point straight up in the air and they'd stay put.

BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM

Remington #10s

BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM

BP

[Fingers McGee]

All of the C&Bs that I shoot have Treso nipples (Piettas, Ubertis, Euroarms, Colts)  #10 Remingtons are the only thing I use on them.  They fit the best, won't fall off, and don't require a push stick to seat them.

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

[Howdy Doody]

+1 on Justice Johnsons observation. A few years back the #10s were in some kind of short supply and I got the #11s and had no issues with them at all fitting and working like the #10s...........except, I use a snail capper and couldn't with the 11's because they tended to turn over in the capper. I did remedy that by taking some metal off the case of the capper, and it worked, but the capper is now no good for #10s.

[Mako]

Can anyone tell me the difference between #10 and #11 Remington caps. I know it sounds dumb. I've been using #10's for years. I need to replace some tubes and everyone who sells them says the Trescos use #11's but on the wire everyone says they are using #10's.

Help
Ike

Ike,
Everyone usually wants to talk about tubes instead of addressing the difference in the caps.

The biggest difference with Remingtons is in the height of the caps.  The #10s run around .175 ±.005 and the #11s run .154 ±.005.  The Internal and External diameters appear to be almost identical on the Remington caps.  The I.D.s  measure  Ø.164±.003 and the O.D.s  measure Ø.180±.003.  This fits with the  nominal material thickness of .008".

They fit differently because cones have a slight taper and different makes have a different base diameter.  A larger diameter cone would require a #11 because the tapered sides of the cone get  larger the further you push a cap on.  The #10 requires it be pushed on .03" further to bottom out against the priming compound.  A # 10 would wedge to a stop before it bottomed out on a larger diameter cone.

Seated Remington Primers typically sit .040" to .045" higher than the bare cone face.  You can seat both a #10 and a #11 Remington on a new Treso Tube (from a 11-50-166 six pack 12-28 Thread size).  The #11 fits relatively easily and can be pulled off with a bit of finger force (won't fall off or come loose during recoil though), the #10 has to be pushed on hard and requires force to remove.  Both will go to being fully seated as measured with a caliper.

I have used both #11s and #10s with Treso Tubes.  The #11s don't have to be seated with anything other than a capper and a light push with a seating stick, the #10s require using a seating stick or some other object and pushing hard to assure the are fully seated.  If you leave the #10s high you may have a misfire because the hammer blow is partially absorbed by hammer forcing the cap home.  My stock Uberti  springs have problems with high #10 caps, the heavier springs on my one Pietta  and Armi San Marco don't seem to care as much.  I have retrofit USFA springs for SAAs to two pairs of my Ubertis because they are a bit heavier, but I'm not sure if they would set off an unseated #10 cap 99.9+% of the time even though I now always push my caps home.

Because of availability  I currently have 700 or so #10 caps, the advantage from a handling standpoint is that the #10s work better in a Cash capper.  The #11s get turned sideways a lot and it rarely happens with a #10.  I like things to go smoothly at the loading table.  I have had misfires with #10s though which is why I prefer to use #11s and deal with the turned caps in the capper.  Since diagnosing the source of the misfires I always seat the #10s with a push stick I made just for the purpose.  It has a slight angle (baloney cut) on the end which allows me to push squarely on the face.   I will say I haven't ever had a problem with an unfired #11 cap coming off of any of my Treso Tubes during a string.  I also haven't had any problem with the Thunder Ridge Tubes on my Navy models.

So in a "nutshell,"  The #10s are longer, they feed better through a Cash Capper.  But, and a big but, you have to make sure they are fully seated or you will have ignition problems.  Some people like that feeling of pressing them on which seems more secure.  If you have larger diameter cones then you might have to use #11s to make sure they fully seat and they should feel snug as well.

Anyone else may add their experiences and observations as they see fit.

Regards,
Mako

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, Mako!  Great explanation.  #11s are shorter than #10s.  Not bigger.  If you don't agree, look at the caps chart in the Dixie catalog ... it verifies what Mako wrote.

The Treso nipples for a Dragoon as well as my Old Uncle Mikes seat best with Remington #11s, because it's a longer nipple and therefore the taper is different than the standard, shorter ones.

Unfortunately, the powder supplier I prefer to do business with, Deer Creek (they're about 30 min. from me  ), has discontinued stocking Remington caps.  They told me (about 2-3 months ago) that they were getting lots of complaints about inconsistent sizing of the Remington caps.  On MY guns, the CCI 11s & 11Ms are a tad loose on my Dragoon and my other C&B shooters.

[Irish Ike]

Thanks everyone. I've been using Thunderridge nipples with Rem#10's for years. They seem to be out of business!

I measured both 10's and 11's and could only find the differnce in length.

I just bought 5000 #10's so my investment wasn't wasted.
Ike

[Fingers McGee]

I just bought 5000 #10's so my investment wasn't wasted.

My normal supplier quit carrying them, so I bought a case (5000) too.  The local Pawn & Gun ordered them for me at a price well under what other retailers are selling them for.  Ought to have enough now for a couple of years at least.

FM

[Irish Ike]

Steel Horse
Your comment on why your local vendor is not stocking them is intersting.
I bought 2000 caps aboput 18 months ago. I have had nothing but trouble with caps staying on or not firing ever since. Even on guns that have for years had no problems what so ever.
I complained to Cabella's and thney gave me some of my money back.
I recently had bought some and now no issues.
So maybe there is a bad batch running around out there.
ike

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Steel Horse
Your comment on why your local vendor is not stocking them is intersting.
I bought 2000 caps aboput 18 months ago. I have had nothing but trouble with caps staying on or not firing ever since. Even on guns that have for years had no problems what so ever.
I complained to Cabella's and thney gave me some of my money back.
I recently had bought some and now no issues.
So maybe there is a bad batch running around out there.
ike

Could be ...

[Fingers McGee]

That's entirely possible.  I'm finushing up on some I bought in early 07.  Havent had one fail to go bang - yet - but I have had to cull some that the compound fell out of.  Another reason for using a revolver capper 

Fingers