Would you buy a Volcanic Rifle?

[Henry4440]

Only a question.
Would you buy a Volcanic Rifle, and under which requirements.
Do you think they have a chance on the market?

[Deadeye Don]

NO and No

[Buck Stinson]

Several years ago, these guns were reproduced in detail.  I believe the only caliber was .22 Long but I may be wrong.   Three or four years ago, I saw one for sale on a table at the Old West Show in Cody.  The price was around $3000.  About a year ago, I called the guy who had the gun and he gave me the information on who had made them and how many were made.  I found out that they did not sell well and that production had shut down not long after they started.  I remember looking at the reproduction and commenting on how accurately it had been reproduced.  It was a dead ringer for the real deal, right down to the rear sight and the color of the wood.  

As a side note, in the early 1920's, while cleaning out some warehouse space at the Winchester factory in New Haven, several original Volcanic's were found in storage.  They were 16" carbines, all new in their original wood grained paste board boxes and each gun came with 100 rounds of ammuntion.  They were eventually placed at the front gate of the plant and offered to any employee who wanted one at $.50 each.  Yes thats right, 50 cents.   Several of these guns still exist in private hands today, just as they were found in the 1920's.  The Winchester museum also has one in their collection.  

Adios,
Buck

[Forty Rod]

I saw a prototype at a gun show in Commerce, CA almost 30 years ago.  The guy had it alongside an original and he had copied it almost to perfection on the outside, down to the style of engraving and the plated receiver.  Tiny dang thing compared to a Henry.

Inside was enough different to handle modern cartridges, either .38 S&W or .380, don't recall which.  I never saw them again and seldom hear anything about them.

Would I buy one?  Yes.....if the price were right.  Doubt I'd want one much over $750.00 though.  It's more of a novelty thing and not terribly practical.

[Henry4440]

  They were eventually placed at the front gate of the plant and offered to any employee who wanted one at $.50 each.  Yes thats right, 50 cents.   

$.50,  i take them all.

Never had a Volcanic in my hands.I think they are quite rare here  in Germany. But i would buy me a Volcanic.Just for fun.
But not for $3000. $750 sounds good.In .22 long or better in  .38 S&S.
Looks like a good youth rifle.My 11 year old daughter love it.

[Fox Creek Kid]

50 cents then was a day's pay, people. 

[Henry4440]

50 cents then was a day's pay, people. 

Ok, for a day's pay i take two.One for me and one for my daughter.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I had the opportunity to handle a real Volcanic a couple of years ago. I was attending a large gun show here in Mass, and one of the major auction houses had a few tables set up. They had all their cataloged items on display prior to their next auction. While drooling over all the beautiful, fancy items on the table, I noticed a little brass framed rifle set back out of the way towards the rear. I guessed that it was a Volcanic. I asked if I could see it. The man behind the table smiled broadly as he handed it to me. He did not mind that I was not wearing gloves, he said to go ahead and take a close look. It is amazing how tiny these things really were. The little pipsqueak 38 rocket ball ammo they fired was not very big, so neither was the rifle. When Henry adopted the action for 44 caliber he scaled the whole design way up. The Volcanic was more the size of a child's 22 rifle. This particular one was missing the follower, everything else seemed to be complete. There was a wire tie holding he action shut, so I didn't push my luck to ask if I could work the action. It was a big enough treat just holding it and sighting it. I thanked the man and handed it back. A few weeks later I saw a notice that the little Volcanic had sold at auction. I seem to remember it went for about $50,000.

Frankly, no I'm not interested in a modern reproduction, even if it was chambered for a modern, easily available cartridge. I have lots of fun with my Marlin 39A, and that's all I really want for a little lever gun, a nice little 22. Just not interested in a reproduction of the Volcanic. It was enough of a thrill to handle a real one. Don't really want a Henry chambered for 44 Rimfire either, I much prefer my 44-40 version.

On the subject of giving them away for 50 cents each, we tend to forget that it is only in the last decades that these old guns have achieved such remarkable values. I have seen plenty of 1st Generation Colts thrown down on the ground and kicked around in the dust in plenty of old black and white oatburners. I don't believe they were using dummy guns, the old guns just were not very valuable, the movie studios owned dozens of them. I believe the basic wage was a bit more than 50 cents a day in pre-depression America, probably more like $1 a day, but even so, an old gun was just an old gun, particularly one so clearly obsolete, so I'm not surprised that's all Winchester was asking for them then. I met a Civil War re-enactor a couple of years ago who uses an original Remington 1858 New Model Army. He bought it many years ago, before such old guns became so pricy. I think he said he paid $5 for it.

[Abilene]

If they made one that was just big enough to handle the .44 Russian I'd give $750 for one (if I had $750 ).  Wonder how long before somebody made a short stroke kit for it? 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Wonder how long before somebody made a short stroke kit for it? 

The "gamers" would be all over that like a fat kid on a doughnut! 

[Flint]

I'd be interested in a Volcanic pistol in 38 S&W or 44 Russian.........

[Driftwood Johnson]

Part of the reason the Volcanic was so tiny was because it fired the little tiny 38 Rocketball ammo. If you upped the caliber to 44, it would no longer be so tiny. That's why the Henry is so much bigger than the Volcanic was. If you were going to make a replica of the Volcanic you would need to keep the caliber down around 32 or 38, to maintain the original tiny width dimension.

The Rocketball ammo was also very short, not much more than an elongated bullet. So the carrier did not have to be very long either. And the stroke was tiny. Look at how short the carrier is in that photo of the original Volcanic. It is short because the ammo was so short. Lengthen the ammo to modern ammo with a case that has any length, and you have to correspondingly lengthen the carrier as well as the bolt to accomodate the longer stroke required for the longer ammo. Today's Henrys have longer carriers and slightly longer frames than the original Henrys because we are using longer ammo in them than the original 44 Henry Rimfire ammo.

Here is a diagram of the Volcanic Rocketball ammo. Notice how short and stubby it was.





Here is the Volcanic rifle and pistol, followed by a Henry





Unfotunately the rifles in the two photos are not to scale. I have not been able to find a photo of the two together. The Volcanic should be considerably smaller than the Henry. Notice how much longer the stock on the Volcanic is in proportion to the stock on the Henry. Picture them about the same length. Notice how much smaller the proportions are on the Volcanic in the area of the carrier and the bolt. That's because the ammo was so tiny. If you were to scale up the ammo on a Volcanic, you would find, just like B. Tyler Henry did, that the whole gun would get considerably bigger.

I have handled one of these things. They were really tiny.

[Henry4440]

Unfotunately the rifles in the two photos are not to scale.

Hey DJ, here is a pic from a .31 Rocketball.


and a pic with some Henry's and a Volcanic Rifle.

[Delmonico]

50 cents then was a day's pay, people. 

Henry Ford paid $5 a day, most factories were some, but not a lot less.

Only way I'd consider one is if it used the original type ammo, other wise to me I ask Why?

[Fox Creek Kid]

There is real Volcanic that is used by "Indio" and Clint Eastwood in "For a Few Dollars More". Look closely. 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Henry4440

Thanks for the pics. Mind if I copy them for possible future posting someplace?

[Forty Rod]

Del, Ford wasn't even born when the Volcanic was being made.   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Sorry to get a little bit off topic, but I just found this.

Ford offered $5/day for eight hours of work. The average wage in the auto industry at the time was $2.34 for a nine hour day.

I just love this stuff.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/builder/profile/ford3.html

[Henry4440]

Mind if I copy them for possible future posting someplace?

Always at your service.
It's a pic from a Rock Island Auction.Can't remember which one.

[Delmonico]

 
As a side note, in the early 1920's, while cleaning out some warehouse space at the Winchester factory in New Haven, several original Volcanic's were found in storage.  They were 16" carbines, all new in their original wood grained paste board boxes and each gun came with 100 rounds of ammuntion.  They were eventually placed at the front gate of the plant and offered to any employee who wanted one at $.50 each.  Yes thats right, 50 cents.   Several of these guns still exist in private hands today, just as they were found in the 1920's.  The Winchester museum also has one in their collection.  

Adios,
Buck

50 cents then was a day's pay, people. 

Del, Ford wasn't even born when the Volcanic was being made.  

Yeah, but he was payin' $5 a day in the 1920's, durn it pard, you can write, why can't ya read.