Magna-fluxing damascus SXS barrels

[Dusty Morningwood]

Been reading and inquiring about how to determine if a damascus barreled shotgun is safe to shoot with BP.  Lots of shrill warnings about exploding guns, but mostly of the "I have heard...." variety and probably the result of high brass smokeless shells being used.  I shot an antique c&b shotgun for several years in the 70s after using the Dixie Gunworks method of testing.  Several people have poo-pooed this test, but for us long time muzzleloaders, bad mouthing Turner Kirkland is tantamount to kicking our dogs!!

A supposedly sure-fire test is magna-fluxing the barrels to find flaws or voids, such as used in auto parts castings.  ANyone done this and what was the result?  Thanks.

[TAkaho kid]

Hello Dusty,

I would post your quyestion on the Double gun BBS [url]http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php[/url

probably the result of high brass smokeless shells being used

Remember hight of brass and dram equivlent are is no indication of pressure. With the exception of the low pressure smokeless loads by RST and the black powder cartridges by Republic I would not trust ANY factory ammo.

If you use black powder shells or low pressure smokeless ammo and your guns in good shape then stuck wad or other fubar aside you should have a safe and enjoyable time shooting your gun.

TK

[Fox Creek Kid]

Before you do anything, read this. 

http://doublegunshop.com/gunther1.htm

[Dusty Morningwood]

Before you do anything, read this. 

http://doublegunshop.com/gunther1.htm

Read that. Note that author says:

"So, what should one do? After 67 years of seeing out of both eyes and having gotten used to having five fully functioning fingers on each hand, I have adopted a rather-safe-than-sorry attitude. As a general rule, I no longer fire any double made before WWII. I have one exception to this rule and it is my French Darne in 16 gauge. This gun is marked as being double proofed, which at the time was a proof of 20,495 psi., far more than any current 16 gauge shell will develop.

What would I do if I were younger and more adventurous? Well, I would first of all have the gun evaluated by a competent gunsmith. If it passed his inspection, I would research the proof the gun had undergone. If it was proofed for black powder, I would only shoot black powder in it. I would invest in reloading tools and make up my own loads. I would insure that my shells were the proper length for the chamber. I would start my loads at about 50% of the equivalent of the proof load given in The Standard Dictionary of Proof Marks. I would gradually increase this to no more than 65% of the original proof load. I would also make sure that I always wore my shooting glasses when firing these guns."


Now looking for the rest of the story.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Now looking for the rest of the story.

Howdy

You have already been given the very best answer you are likely to get. Post your question on the Double Gun Journal.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

The readers of The Double Gun Journal are probably the most knowledgable source of information on old shotguns you will find anywhere on the internet. Not too long ago there was a series of articles published on the subject over at The Double Gun Journal. Probably the most authoritative work ever published on the subject. Ask where you can find it. Just don't be unhappy if the answer you get back is not the answer you want to hear.

I own two 100 year old Stevens doubles that were both proofed for Smokeless powder when they were made. However they are not damascus barrelled guns, they are early fluid steel barrelled guns. Even so, given their age, I never put anything but Black Powder through them. I will not fire them with Smokeless today. I see old Damascus barrelled guns for sale all the time, usually pretty cheap. It is not worth it to me to take a chance on hundreds of feet of 100 year old welds just to save a few dollars.

[Dusty Morningwood]

It is not that I am not getting the answer I want to hear or that I want to save money.  Some of these guns go for more than a new TNN or other such modern replica.  It is just that I seem to be hearing something that goes like: "Why?"  "Because."  "Because why?"  "Just because."  This Gunther fellow seems to indicate that he shoots modern facory (smokeless) ammo only.  None of the referred links directly address sound, clean, tight guns with high-quality damascus barrels being shot with BP.  So that is the information I am stubbornly seeking, not just shopping around for agreement.

[Cutter Carl]

Magnafluxing shows defects that extend to the surface.  That's what makes it great on car parts, i.e. valve seats, combustion chambers, etc.  Any void that is internal would most likely not show with magnafluxing such as voids in the rib.  There are newer methods (x-ray, etc.) that can detect the internal voids but the cost is probably prohibitive for the average Joe.

[Fox Creek Kid]

All I'll say is this: I've seen one gun blow apart in my life (wasn't mine nor was I shooting it). It's an experience indelibly engraved on my brain. Many people will post questions such as yours so as to "sanction" an activity that they are unsure of or perhaps to allay any fears they may have, not unlike the little boy whistling as he walks with trepidation past a graveyard at night.    If you're not sure then don't do it. If you do and it works, hey that's great. If it doesn't well then you should know that with the war in Iraq there's a backlog for prosthetic limbs. 

[Delmonico]

X Raying and Magnaflux are only part of the answer, the real proof is in the gun being reproofed.  You must be willing to chance destroying  the gun if it don't pass.  Can be done, has been done.

With that, one thing to consider, I myself would be willing to hunt with proper loads with a reproofed DS gun, but to shoot it at a CAS shoot or other type place where there are lots of people around, no I would not.  Since loading manuals and the last box of factory ammo I bought state not to shoot DS guns, do you want to try to explain that in court if it would let go, hurt someone and they sued?  Just thoughts from my often not humble opinion. 

[Cuts Crooked]

This is a better topic for the gunsmithing forum. Try asking/debating this over there.

Thanx