Henry Civil War Cartridge box

[Injun Ryder]

Here are some pics of an original Henry Cartridge box from 1864 and a reproduction that I had made.

The original (From: The Civil War Collectors Encyclopedia, Dr. Francis Lord)



My reproduction (Made by Creger Custom Leather in Orange, CA)



The stamp in the lower left corner is "Henry Arms Company 1864".

Here is a little info on this cartridge box from: (it is the second one mentioned below)
Henry Cartridge boxes: (From article: Henry – Victory through rapid fire, Andrew L. Bresnan, M.S.
The National Henry Rifle Company)

There were two types of cartridge boxes for the Henry. One of these looks very similar to the regular Springfield box of the Civil War. It has an implement pocket sewn to the front. It is covered by a large flap. Instead of tins for the inside, the Henry box contains 4 wooden blocks. Each block was drilled to contain 35 Henry cartridges. These blocks were stacked on top of each other. The bottom of the box was open. When the top block was emptied, it was removed and pushed up through the bottom. This moved the other 3 blocks up into position. The blocks were held in place by means of a spring on each side of the box. It also had 2 leather straps that went around the bottom of the box to insure that the blocks did not fall out.

The other box for the Henry did not hold as many rounds. It is possibly the rarest cartridge box of the Civil War. This box was manufactured by the New Haven Arms Company in 1864. The black leather flap measures 7 inches across and is embossed with the standard "US" oval 3 inches across. The flap is pointed like a shield at the bottom and measures 4.5 inches from point to top of the box. At the bottom left hand of the front flap of the box is marked "Henry Arms Company 1864" in 1 and three eighths inch elongated rectangle inspector's stamp. The back of the box has two, three-quarters of an inch leather straps riveted to the box four inches long for fitting over a cavalry or infantry belt. The flap affixes to the box by a brass vinule in a three-quarter inch leather strap. Inside the box is a staggered row of linen loops with places for 16 cartridges. On the outside of the front box, underneath the flap, there is another stitched row of 8 linen loops for cartridges. To the left inside the box there is a rounded space with a leather strap with a cut out for a Henry rifle tool. The box itself is 6 inches by 3 inches. It is 2 and a half inches deep and 2 inches wide. This box is pictured in Dr. Francis Lord's third volume of The Civil War Collectors Encyclopedia.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Sweet!! Is he marketing these? If so, how much?

[Injun Ryder]

FCK - I provided all of the info and Dave made two of these a couple of years ago. I would imagine that he still has the patterns and I know he has the stamps. I would suggest giving him a call at 714-538-7704 and checking with him.

[Triggersmith]

I have a copy of the original drawings of the that Henry cartridge box with the 4 blocks you are talking about.  A few years back I ran into a web site that posted them and I copied them.  They are complete enought to build that box as it shows the wooden cartridge trays and all.
If you are interested email me at:
rlhanchett@gmail.com   (1-15-13

Nice photos of that box.  Up to now I thought there was just the one.
Thanks
Triggersmith

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Very cool. Also interesting that the pouch is stamped Henry Arms Company 1864. I was under the impression that except for about a year, just before the company was renamed Winchester in 1866, it would have been referred to as the New Haven Arms Company. Seems Mr Henry tried to pull a fast one while Oliver Winchester was on tour in Europe and tried to get the company named after himself. But I thought that would have been around 1865.

Just a note - be careful if you want to use the pouch in SASS competition. Despite the fact that it is a reproduction of a historical original, SASS rules state that:

Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the
contents for rapid retrieval.

I think a cartridge box like that would be considered a pouch, because of the cover flap. Just a heads up.

[Triggersmith]

Here is the article on the original Henry cartridge box.
"The original Henry had an official cartridge box and it looked very similar to the Federal issue .58 or 69 caliber cartridge box.  The actual Henry box had four wooden blocks that held the copper cartridges.  When one block was empty it was removed from the top and inserted into the bottom of the box and held in with a couple of springs on each end of the box.  The other blocks were then pushed up to the top.  I have only seen pictures of this box and it is my understanding that they were a very rare item during the Civil War."
I have built one of these boxes without the sliding blocks.  I am now going to build one with the sliding block mechanism.  This box is very cool.
Below is the cartridge box I made using cartridge slides instead of wooden blocks.
Triggersmith

[Injun Ryder]

Driftwood - You are right about the loops not being allowed for SASS reloads. But when I read about the cartridge box and tracked down the pictures, I just had to have one anyway. I tend to use it in a couple of ways.

1. I will throw a couple extra shotgun shells in it which is acceptable.

2. I will use it as a holder for extra cartridges in case I need an extra or have an extra at the loading bench.

As an aside, I had a gunbelt made similar to ones used by Henry/Spencer riflemen in the Civil War that is just a plain black belt with five canvas loops. I had read that the soldiers had sewn on their own loops to carry a few extra cartridges. My belt is black with white canvas loops. It is definitely not fancy but is very functional and has some history backing it up.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Boy! I'd like one of these Henry pouches too. I use a Civil war USN cartridge pouch now and I like it it'll hole 24 44 Rem/Colt C.F.
s or 14 12 Gauge Shells. I like the Henry Stamps on it too. I'd be up for one too.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That's really interesting. I like the design. I'll definitely have to make one of those. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Heck, I want one of both of those. They're great designs. Good thread, IR.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

there was a third design.  It was a solid brass pouch with a flat, spring loaded lid.  It was almost like a quarter grapefruit size.  I have seen two, both about three or four years ago.  One for sale on Ebay and one through a CW artifacts dealer.  I think they went for around $800. If I remember right, they have a picture of one in one of my Civil War memorabila encyclopedias in storage in California.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

The designs would be perfectly legal in NCOWS. The box with the four wooden blocks would be legal if it was made to the original pattern and not with the belt slides......Tandy or any leather company that makes stamps will make that stamp

Bill

[Driftwood Johnson]

Gotta admit I do like that pouch. Might see if I can make one myself too. Just for carrying some rounds, not for reloads.

Anybody have any information on my question about the Henry Company name and timing?

[Injun Ryder]

Driftwood - When I originally came across this a couple of years ago, I tried searching for additional information and came up empty. The only info I found was that I posted above mentioning that the pouch was manufactured by New Haven Arms and then the picture of the original pouch showing the stamp with Henry Arms Company. I did not find anything explaining the discrepancy.

It would be interesting to know this little tidbit though.

[Major 2]

The line drawing Triggersmith shows is from Todd's American Military Equipage 1851-1872
The caption states:

Black Bridle Leather, implement pocket, double flaps, 2 narrow straps riveted to rear which pass under box and engage studs on front of outer flap. Inside dimensions 6.5 x1.6 x 5 ". Four wooden inserts, each bored for 35 Cal. 44 rim-fire Henry Cartridges.
Open Bottom with brass spring on each side which engaged channels in the blocks.
Example is stamped " R. NECE/PHILAD." with embossed US on flap.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The springs interest me. Does anyone have any information on how they were shaped or held into the box? From your post, Major2, I see they were made from brass.

Another thing has me curious. How were the boxes held on the belt the soldier had? The two straps that keep the blocks from dropping out can't be used to attach the box to a belt or they would allow the box to drop off when not fastened. On the drawing, I don't see any way the straps are attached at the bottom of the box to be used as belt loops, nor do I see any belt loops. Any information on this? Was the box removed when being accessed?

[Major 2]

Will

They were one piece flat plate brass with the spring cookie cut from it.
It was friction type curved leaf bent out from the brass and still attached at the bottom.
One was riveted on each side and the blocks had a groove at each end ... the spring both held tention & served as a guide.

[Dusty Morningwood]

Just curious, why would the pouch with cartridge loops not be SASS legal?  Isn't it just a fancy and more cumbersome version of a cartridge slide or a cartridge belt?  It's authentic and couldn't possibly provide any unfair advantage I can see.   

Also, I want one!!!  Wonder what the place in Orange, CA gets for one of those?  Might like to take a crack at building the one with blocks, too.  Just for giggles. 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

They were one piece flat plate brass with the spring cookie cut from it.
It was friction type curved leaf bent out from the brass and still attached at the bottom.
One was riveted on each side and the blocks had a groove at each end ... the spring both held tention & served as a guide.

That makes good sense, considering the drawings. That was what I suspected, thanks. I'll have to get on it when I figure out the belt loops. I can see the the reason for brass in an all-weather situation, too.

[Injun Ryder]

Dusty - Regarding SASS legal - just because. Apparently something happened in the past that caused the statement "Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the contents for rapid retrieval" to be added to the SASS handbook. The pouches I see are primarily for shotgun rounds and there could have been a design that provided an advantage. Maybe this pouch for rifle/pistol rounds could be proven that the "rapid retrieval" clause is not applicable but at a major match it would probably not win the argument.

My original cost from Creger Leather was $65 a couple of years ago. I don't know what Dave would charge now.

I found the metal cartridge box referenced by Tuolumne Lawman:
http://reviews.ebay.ca/Kittredge-Bennett-Box_W0QQugidZ10000000002196856