Reloading the 45-60 or the 45-75 in bp

[Marshal Deadwood]

Were do you get your dies, reloading compontants ? etc..for either of thoes calibres ?

Considering one of the two,,and wanted to know what I was getting into,,,,might help influence the decision.

Thanks a heap , pards.

Marshal Deadwood

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, MD!

   Pick up a copy of M.Venturino's "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West"; lots of great reloading tips.
   He also lists suppliers; as far as die sets go, I bought an RCBS three die set for my Old '76 chambered in .45-75WCF. I did get the "gunshop employee discount", however. C&H/4-D have good prices, and they do stand behind their work.
   You can buy ready-made .45-75 brass, or you can fireform .348WCF brass; but fireforming's more involved than trimming .45-70 brass {+/-2.10"} down to .45-60WCF {+/-1.87"}! Firing the .45-60WCF out of a '76 has got to be really pleasant, too... Not that the .45-75WCF is heavy, it's just that those little 300gr. .45-60WCF bullets {out of my .45-70 Gov} are light and fun!
   Be sure to get the Venturino book!

   Be Well!

            M.T.Marfield:.
                7-15-07

[Abilene]

In a recent Handloader magazine (the issue that was out about 6 weeks ago, not sure what month that issue was), Mike Venturino reviews the 4 loads he came up with for a Cimarron 45-60 '76 (3 smokeless and one BP.  He was trying to duplicate the velocity of the originals).  He also talks about the various calibers that the Uberti '76 is being chambered for and the various problems that each encounters (brass issues, available bullet issues, etc) and in his opinion the 45-60 is the way to go as far as available bullets and brass (easy to cut down 45-70).

Cimarron did just receive a bunch of 45-75 '76's.  But 45-60 is the caliber on my wish list (guns are available.  My $$$ is not available  ).

[Hell-Er High Water]

I'm reloading for the 45-75 in a Chaparral NWMP carbine and I bought a set of Lee dies.  Both Graf and Midway show the Lee dies to be in stock and they are reasonably priced.

Midway shows Lee 45-60 dies to be in stock also.

The RCBS 45-325-FN-U is supposed to be the correct mould for both the 45-60 & the 45-75 with the crimping groove in the correct location.  I have one on order but for now I am using the RCBS 45-300-FN gas check bullet and crimping on the nose because I already have that mould.  Ready cast, sized and lubed  bullets are available from Buffalo Arms if you are not into casting.

I am forming my 45-75 brass from 348 Winchester and the 45-60 is readily made from 45-70 brass.

I wouldn't hesitate to get either one or the other as all reloading tools and components are readily available.

HHW

[Grapeshot]

Thought this might be best repeated.

This is for those Pards that have gotten or are getting the Chaparral 1876 Winchester in .45-60 WCF.

First, if you are modifying .45/70 cases, you have to shorten your .45-70 cases from 2.10 inches to 1.88 inches.  I used a Lyman case trimmer with a .45 Caliber pilot and a dial caliper to shorten one case to 1.88 inch.

I had a .45 Colt case trimming die that is used by using an RCBS press, a hacksaw and fine cut file.  Lubricating the shortened .45-70 case, I ran it into this trim die until it was flush with the top.  I then gave it a couple of passes with the file to true up the mouth.

Once that was done, I made sure that the die's locking nut was tightened down so it would not move.

The rest of the 89 cases I lubed and ran into the trim die until they protruded through the top of the die.  I then used the hacksaw to cut off the excess and the file to true up the mouth.

After I had all the cases I wanted, I champhered the case mouths.

At this point in time, the cases are a bit bottlenecked in shape.  I then ran them up through a .45/70 Sizing Die.  Then through a .45/70 case mouth belling die to set them up for a .458 bullet.

After seating Remington Large Rifle Magnum Primers, I loaded the cases with a variety of .458 bullets and a 50-grain by volume Hogdon 777.  An NEI 390 grain Gas Checked Model, a Rapine 405 grain Hollow Based bullet and a Lee 405 grain RNFP were used to fire form the cases.  To crimp them I first ran them SLOWLY up a .45 Colt Taper Crimp die.

Knowing that I was going to have to have a real crimping die and a sizing die for the .45/60 I CALLED Lee Precision using their contact number from their web site.  They had the dies on hand and I ordered a sizing die and a seating/crimping die.

This did not prove to be a practical solution, as the crimp die would not crimp.  I may have trimmed the cases to short, or their die was not as precise as they claim.  Anyway, I had a Lee .45-70 factory crimp die that I was not using, so I filed the sliding collet shorter, trying to crimp every few strokes until it would crimp the cases as slick as a whistle.

After firing the rifle with my modified cases, I reloaded with the same style bullets and new magnum rifle primers, but reduced the powder charge to 40 grains, by volume, of 777, and used the new sizing die and seating die and the modified FCD.  I took it to the range again and had a blast as I made an old frying pan dance at 100 yards with those heavy bullets.

I've reloaded a batch using some smokeless loads and some Hornady 350 grain JSP's and some Montana Swaged 300 grain RNFP's in .458 diameter.  I hope to check them out by the end of next month, if the weather cooperates around the Midatlantic eastern states.

I checked the rifling and it is faster than the originals.  It came out to 1:22 inches.

[john boy]

Marshal - Don't own or load the 45-60, but here's some information about the 45-75:
Dies:  From Graf & Sons
*  Lee 45-75 die set - they say 2 dies but it is a 3 die set
*  Lyman 45-75 M Expander die
*  Optional - Forester Power Case Trimmer, collet and pilot (45-70) ... size the pilot down to 453
Cases:  Either buy (Jamison or Buffalo Arms - be careful of BA's!)or make your own from 348 cases.
Additional Information: W-W 348 Brass ... http://www.gamaliel.com/cart/product.php?productid=2818
Cost differential 94 cents or $1.05 per case to buy .... 348's ($31 per 50) 
*  Here's the plug to preclude all the multiple dies needed to resize 348's to 45-75  (Three of us have the 45-75's, so we made 3 on Swiss Oscar's lathe)


Steps:
*  Run 348 case through M die with plug (I use liquid lanolin as a lube)
(Found that if the 348's are trim lengthed first - Split Cases!)  So stretch them full length
*  Cut case to 1.95 with Dremel cutoff wheel ... use a Forester Power Case Trimmer ... goes quicker with better accuracy
*  Trim to 1.93
*  Depending on the chamber of the rifle, may need to cut the INSIDE of the W-W 348 rim diameter - 10/thousands
Additional: My chamber did not require any rim trim
*  Resize case with Lee 47-75 resizer/decapper die
*  Fireform
Additional: 10gr (20gr's works best) Red Dot and a sheet of toilet paper for fireforming
*  Trim to 1.89
*  Anneal case mouth

Bullets:
Buy- Magma 457350 Bevel Base (350gr)
Cast:
Additional:  I ordered the Lee 457-340F double cavity mold - Thanks Ranch!
Additional:  The 457-340F (1:20) produced excellent groups out to 300 yards
Lyman 457122HP (330gr)  - drop a #6 shot in hole and then file nose when done.  This is the original 45-75 bullet that is in production today

Additional Information:
Chaparral Barrel Specifications:
Bore - 0.451
Groove - 0.456

Reload: 
*  BR2 Primer
*  70gr FFg powder
*  Crimp
Shoot em!
*  For my heathen Pardners ... 23grs of XMP 5744 produces excellent groups also

Note:  Strike Outs and Italics is updated information as a result of resizing 150 cases and range testing

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Grapeshot & John Boy, thanks  for the detailed info.  I don't have one of these rifles.  Yet.  However, I'm printing up those directions for future use.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Thanks for this thread!   I've activated the "Notify" function on it, for sure ....   

(I am awaiting my Chaparral NWMP carbine in .45-75 - which will take awhile yet as it makes its way through the bureaucratic maze of export from the U.S. - but have already snagged a set of Lee dies, and just ordered cases and a mould through Gad Custom Cartridges ...)

[john boy]

Gents:  i have added some additional information to my original post ... Enjoy!

[Hobie]

I see some familar names here and came over for some more info, hopefully.  Like John Boy I'm documenting my rifle (an NWMP SRC Chaparral).  I have accumulated some information but I'm always willing to learn something new.

[Noz]

Interesting. I just got a 45/70 that came with a half a box of cartridges and some empty cases. The Federal cases measure  1.85