Beginner's Guide to Loading 56-50 Cartridges for Taylor's Spencer ** Info Added

[Two Flints]

Hello SSS,

I asked one of the SSS members to put together a "Beginner's Guide to Loading 56-50 Cartridges for the Taylor's Spencer".  I am just getting involved with reloading for the first time, and wanted an easy to read and follow set of 'how to' instructions intended for the novice reloader.  I just purchased a Lee Classic Turret Loader and all the equipment necessary for loading, including dies, caliper, and scale. I made a very solid loading bench and now I'm ready to load.  I even convinced my wife that it would be in my best interest if she fired my first loaded cartridges for me

What follows is just one members point of view on how to load cartridges for the Taylor's Spencer Carbine and Rifle models.  Certainly, there are other methods and tools out there that cover the same topic,  so those individuals with more reloading experience can adapt this info to suit their needs and desires and even post it here if they would like to. This data information really applies only for the carbine, but these loads should also be applicable to loading for the 56-50 rifle.

1. A good reloading manual that explains the reloading basics and an accurate powder scale are things that every reloader should have.  There is nothing magic about reloading for this caliber, it is pretty much the same as any other straight walled cartridge. It just resembles an overgrown, straight walled, black powder pistol cartridge.  CASES: At this point I see no need to use anything other than Starline 56-50 Spencer cases. They are readily available and reasonably priced (but not cheap). Cases can be made from 348 Winchester brass or 50-70 Gov't brass with modified rims. But why bother? I have never annealed these cases, have not split any and I do not get any excessive blowback with either black or smokeless powder. Some have been loaded 5 or 6 times at this point.

PRIMERS: I have used both standard large rifle primers and large rifle magnum primers. I can see no difference in performance or accuracy between the two of them when using either black powder or smokeless in this cartridge. There may be a difference with a BP substitute,  but I have never tried one of them. I have used Winchester WLR, large rifle primers and Federal 215, large rifle magnum primers. I have settled on the Winchester WLR primers for my loads.

BULLETS: I use two bullets in this cartridge, both are cast from straight-wheel weights. The Rapine 512-350-T, 350 grain bullet and the modified Lee 515-340-FN, 340 grain bullet. The Rapine bullet  has one large grease groove, while the modified Lee bullet has two smaller grease grooves. Both carry enough lube for BP shooting with this cartridge in the carbine with the 20" barrel. I haven't shot either of these bullets in the 30" barreled rifle, but have read where they did fine in the rifle, also. The modified Lee bullet is a 500 grain bullet with the bottom two bands and grease grooves removed. The modified moulds are being marketed by Dakota Widowmaker.  Lyman also makes a mould for a bullet that they say is suitable for this caliber. It is their bullet number 515139 and they list it as a 340 grain bullet.

BLACK POWDER: With the Rapine bullet,  I load 29.0 gr (about 2.0 cc) of GOEX FFg with no over powder wad. This gives about 0.020" powder compression. With the modified Lee bullet I load 33.0 gr (about 2.2 cc) of GOEX FFg with no over powder wad. This gives about 0.040" powder compression. The Rapine bullet is crimped in the crimp groove with an overall cartridge length of 1.515" +/-. The modified Lee bullet is crimped on the nose in front of the first band with an overall cartridge length of 1.575" +/-. Both of these loads feed from the Spencer magazine as long as the action is operated in a relatively fast, positive manner. If the action is operated slowly, they will hang up going into the chamber.

SMOKELESS POWDER: After trying several different smokeless powders (Accurate Arms XMP 5744, IMR 4198, Unique, IMR SR 4759 & IMR 4227) I found IMR 4227 the be the most satisfactory. 23.5 gr of IMR 4227 with either of the bullets listed provides an accurate load in my carbine. This load nearly fills the case and appears to have a good load density.

BULLET LUBE: For black powder loading I use either SPG or Dick Dasterdly's Pearl Lube. For smokeless loading I use either of the above BP lubes or my homemade smokeless lube. I suspect that any smokeless lube will work with smokeless powder loadings.  ** Info Added     My homemade Smokeless Lube is made in the following manner:  The formula for the homemade lube is as follows:

Parts are by volume, not by weight.
2 parts paraffin (this is the stuff that you get in the store for canning;)
2 parts carnuba wax - solid, not in the liquid form (you can get on eBay or from other sources);
1 part  cup grease (this is the old green/black grease that comes in bulk in a can.  This is usually the hardest item to find.  I pick some up now and then at barn or ranch sales).  This is not the modern, lithium based grease.

Melt all together in a double boiler type arrangement (I use a coffee can in my empty lead pot with a water bath in the pot - believe it or not but this actualy gets the lead pot sparkling clean as a side effect).  Pour into hollow sticks for the lube-sizer or use as a pan lube mixture.  Stores indefinitely. **

LOADING DIES: The most common brand of loading dies available for this caliber are the Lyman dies, a 3 die set. A word of caution here. The early Lyman dies for this caliber had their problems. I had to send mine back to Lyman for repair/replacement of the expander die and the seating dies. The first sets had the standard 50-70 expander plug and would bulge the case in the heavier web area when applying the two step expansion and the die body of the seating die was too long to properly crimp the case before it bottomed out on the shell holder. Lyman has corrected these problems but it is always possible to get an early set of loading dies that may have been in a supplier's stock for a time. Lyman, and possibly others, make the proper shell holder for this caliber. It is the same shell holder as used for the 50-70 Gov't.

LOADING: I load for this cartridge, and the 50-70 Gov't, on a Lyman Crusher II, single stage press because the rims on these cartridges are too big to fit in my Dillon progressive press. Just as a side note, I load all my BP pistol ammo on the Dillon press with an adapter that accepts an aluminum powder hopper. After the cases are sized, expanded and primed I use a Lyman black powder measure to charge them in a loading block. All cases are then inspected for the proper powder charge and the bullets seated and the cases crimped in the Lyman press. A turret press should work for loading this cartridge so long as it will accept a standard type shell holder. To my knowledge, no manufacturer will endorse the use of black powder in their automatic powder measurers so the individual reloader is on their own on this matter. There has been much written on this matter in "Darksider's Den" forum and it is well worth reading for those of you that may want to load black powder on a progressive or turret press with an automatic powder measure. Each individual has to make up his or her own mind on this one.

NOTES:
1. If you use a reloading block, the Midway, Frankford Arsenal #9 block (tray) fits this cartridge as well as the 50-70 Gov't and others.
2. The MTM Case-Gard P64-50 ammo box holds these loaded rounds just fine. This is a 64 round, hinged lid plastic ammo box for the 50AE cartridge and others.


Two Flints

[Crazeyiven]

Two Flints,

Any chance you can expand on the details of the smokless loads?

Thanks,

David

[Two Flints]

Crazyiven,

Try looking through some of the earlier topics for the information that would best suit your needs.  There has been a lot of "smokeless loading" information posted on SSS.  I've included just one of these below.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=12448.0

Two Flints

[Ed Clintwood]

Two Flints,

I've been reloading for better than 45 years and I've found each new cartridge is a new adventure and the 56-50 certainly was one of those.  Your information was well put and very useful.  I have been trying to figure out what charge of BP to use and FINALLY someone has come out with either the Lee (2 or 2.2 cc) measure or grains on a scale.  It drives me nuts to have someone say oh it's 40 grs by volume, thank you for the actual weight.  I too found 4227 at 23.5 grs to be a good smokeless load, I've also tried Trailboss and found that to be a fun load, but I'll let others work up their own load.

Thanks again, good post.

[Two Flints]

Ed,

All the information that was posted above came from an SSS posse member, who asked me to post that information for him.  So, the credit goes to him (he prefers to remain anonymous) and not me for all that great information. I am glad you and other SSS members are finding it useful.

SSS members have been great about sharing their information on loading and shooting the Spencer 56-50.

Two Flints

[Tommy tornado]

What goes into the above mentioned Smokeless homemade lube?  Otherwise great info.

[Hell-Er High Water]

TT,

If you look in the forum "The Shooting Range", there is a topic there titled "Homemade Smokeless Bullet Lube".

The formula that I posted there is the lube refered to in the above loading info.

HHW

[Two Flints]

Hi Hell-er-High Water,

I already added the Lube Information to the original Beginner's Guide Post above.  I added the following information to answer TT's question:

** Info Added     My homemade Smokeless Lube is made in the following manner:  The formula for the homemade lube is as follows:

Parts are by volume, not by weight.
2 parts paraffin (this is the stuff that you get in the store for canning;)
2 parts carnuba wax - solid, not in the liquid form (you can get on eBay or from other sources);
1 part  cup grease (this is the old green/black grease that comes in bulk in a can.  This is usually the hardest item to find.  I pick some up now and then at barn or ranch sales).  This is not the modern, lithium based grease.

Melt all together in a double boiler type arrangement (I use a coffee can in my empty lead pot with a water bath in the pot - believe it or not but this actualy gets the lead pot sparkling clean as a side effect).  Pour into hollow sticks for the lube-sizer or use as a pan lube mixture.  Stores indefinitely. **

Two Flints

[matt45]

     I was able to try my handloads for the first time today.  I started out with two different bullets- the first is the lyman mentioned in another thread.  The next is a BAC that Toulamne Lawman let me steal from him.  I started out with 22 grs. of IMR 4227 and CCI 200 primers.  By the end of the day, I am at 23 grs. and CCI 250 primers.
     It appears that there is quite a bit of powder residue (I have the carbine), which is reduced by the use of the magnum primer.  I was starting out with a gentle crimp, and am now using as aggresive crimp as the seating die will produce- again to facilitate more powder burn in the barrel vs. out the muzzle.
     My light ran out on me, so my accuracy testing is not as extensive as I would like, but here are some numbers (all units are english standard):
Outside Temp- 35, Baro pres- 29.6, elevation- 5925 ft. above sea level
Avg vel. 1095; hi 1128, lo 1072   SD 16.7 and extreme spread was 55.9 fps
Best group was 1.5 in @ 100 yds (3 shot) and avg grp @ 100 yds 3" (5 shot)

O.K- that was Yesterday- 10 Feb, 2007.  Today I increased the load by one grain to 24 grains, same primer, conditions roughly the same.  Numbers are:
avg vel- 1156, Hi 1176, lo 1072, Sd 19.1, and es was 40.1
My thinking at this point is that this is the useful maximun for this powder/bullet combination.  In my experience, once the SD starts moving up like this load did between 23 and 24 grains it is reaching the upper limit of useful pressure
     It might be useful to move to the next quicker powder up the scale.  I don't have my manual with me, but 2400 might be allright
I think that this is probably as good as it gets until I improve the sight picture, and work on the trigger, but this is a very (in my experience) consistent load.
Terminal performance- The lyman bullet penetrated 7 inches of green lodgepole pine (with the grain) and the BAC penetrated 8".  due to the hardness of the bullets (26 BNH) no real loss of weight was sustained.

[matt45]

... And if you're not tired of data yet

Another good load - CCI 350 primer, 32 grs of 777.  My bullet(s) are 326 gr, velocity is 1216, with a standard deviation of 10.1- a good consistent load.