Old time dyes: a How_to

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I think you can probably wipe the dye on but having not made any yet, maybe Nolan will be able to advise. I just rounded up some fresh hulls to make some dye. These hulls are from English walnuts and I expect to get a slightly lighter color than with the black walnut hulls. Time will tell, I guess.

[Nolan Sackett]

Concentrate a batch until it is the consistency of thin syrup, add a 1/2 cup of rubbing alcohol per qt (adjust to whatever amount you have). This works pretty good as a wipe on.

With the walnut dye what I do most of the time is dye the piece first, let dry until it is the right dampness for tooling, tool, finish up as normal.....

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Nolan and Will

              I appreciate your reply, I've been looking for this information for a long time now, I like the looks of your dyed leather Nolan, it really has that antique look about it. Will now that I'm armed with this information, I'm going to give this a shot.

                                        Thanks again Nolan Sackett and Will Wingam

                                                           Ten Wolves 

[Nolan Sackett]

Ten wolves - you're welcome. As for dying I use both modern and traditional dyes, sometimes mixed together i.e in layers that is........I offer advice on dying/aging also in my DVD on frontier holsters....

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Hi Noland
         
              I'm interested Noland, so how do I go about getting you dvd, I tried to access your web site from your profile page, but I got a ( web not responding notice ) let me know how to get this, you've got a customer. And thanks for your comback,

                                               Ten Wolves   

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

                           Noland I tried your web site several different ways and they say the web site is down, so if you can you can pm me,  we can go that way. talk to you later or you can give me your land line.

                                                    Ten Wolves 

[Wymore Wrangler]

Just got a phone call from Nolan Sackett, not only does he have website problems, now he can't log on to CASCITY so anyone needing to contact him, call him at 970-259-8396...  Tenwolves, I sent ya a PM with this number too...

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

     


                                                          Thanks Wymore  Wrangler 

                                                                Ten Wolves

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

    Thanks, Will and Wymore 

                            I talked to Nolan Sackett today, and the DVD is on its way to me wright now, He said his web site has been down since last sat. but it's back up now, hes having troble getting back on with cas city for some reason, but hopes to have that fixed soon also 

                                           You Pards Take Care Now

                                                    Ten Wolves 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Gents 
      I've already posted this picture , on show your stuff , but thought maybe I should post it here too . This is the finished rig , where I used Nolan Sacketts old time dyes and antiquing methods, it takes a lot more time to do this but I totaly think it's worth it . I've been trying to get this look for a long time know , with no result , until now, Chuck Burrows dvd is worth the money spent .

                                    Thanks Chuck 

                                           Ten Wolves 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

10 Wolfs ...

VERY nice!

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Steel Horse
               
    thanks for the kind words,I had a lot of fun antiquing this gun belt and the holsters and knife sheath, I learned lots of good stuff from Chuck Burrow DVD on holster making ,the old time dying , and antiquing was just what I was looking for. process takes a lot more time , but I think it's totally worth it....


                                                  Have a Happy New Year

                                                          Ten Wolves 

[ChuckBurrows]

Not picking on Ten Wolves here, as in part I'm to blame (via my video due to my not checking the facts), but the following statement regarding natural dyes (in this case coffee)

and DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE IRON IN,you need it for a mordant,

is a misconception regarding any natural dye made of a material with a high tannin content since tannin is a mordant in and of itself.....
Tannin and tannic acid: - Good mordant if tans or browns are required - Gives dark shades - http://www.azerbaijanrugs.com/arfp-natural_dyes_mordants.htm
Adding iron can increase the color depth, but it also tends to "muddy" or gray out the color...........reducing your dye without adding iron will usually increase the color depth without muddying the color......

examples of iron and no iron:
1) Botas: the flap was dyed in heavily reduced walnut with no iron added -  note the dark brown without gray. The grayish legs were dyed with a light walnut with iron...


2) Cuffs: brown - dark roast coffee and nothing else brewed STRONG and then reduced by about half....


For those who may doubt my statements or would like to further their knowledge I suggest looking it up  - a couple of more sources regarding natural dyes & mordants - there is plethora of them, most regarding cloth, but usually the knowledge gained can be applied to leather:
http://www.abbeycolor.com/organic-dyes.php
http://www.pioneerthinking.com/naturaldyes.html

Hopefully this thread will be taken in the spirit it is meant - to broaden our knowledge base.........

[Mogorilla]

As a kid whose father liked free walnuts in the winter, I picked up many a black walnut and will testify to the dyeing effects.  first my hands then the leather gloves I wore, after several years of picking up walnuts, my good leather gloves were black.  They were used regular every day and treated a couple of times a year with neatsfoot oil, but they were black as night.   Tannins are found in coffee, teas, and most if not all natural dyes in some form or another.   I am a chemist not a biologist, but I think every plant has tannins in some amount from a little to a lot.  Pyrogallo is a tannin that is found in acorns and walnut hulls.  I mentioned earlier, but the Native Americans would toss walnut hulls in stream holes to "fish".  Works like dynamite.  The fish die and float to the top for easy collection. By doing it in a stream, the effect isn't permanent as it eventually washes down.   I am pretty sure the conservation department treats it like fishing with dynamite, so no trips to the wooded stream please.     I have had good luck coffee, especially soaking with the grounds themselves.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for the clarification, Chuck. The examples also help. Much appreciated.

[Ace Lungger]

Mogorilla, C.B., and others,
I like my Pecan dye better than any brown, but that is just my preference, I also use the Walnut, but the Walnut takes 3 times longer to get as dark as the Pecan, and the Pecan has a little redish to it!
One thing I was going to try, andI think it is to late. I was thinking about trying the Big pointy Surgar maple Pods (or at least that is what I have heard the trees called!
I have a couple other things that I am going to try, but at this time, I think it is best that I make some up first and then let people know!
If anyone knows of these pods I am talking about, they are about the size of a small ping pong ball, and have a ton of thistles on them! I would like to know if I am calling them by there right name!
Thanks
ACE

[St. George]

I happen to be the proud owner of those cuffs - they're actually much nicer and 'richer' looking in person...

Thanks again, Chuck...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Hank Rugerman]

If anyone knows of these pods I am talking about, they are about the size of a small ping pong ball, and have a ton of thistles on them! I would like to know if I am calling them by there right name!
Thanks
ACE

Ace....I believe you're talking about Sweet Gum..

http://www.naturalsciences.org/funstuff/notebook/plants/sweetgum_balls.html

[Ace Lungger]

Hank, you are right!! That is what they are  I just couldn't remember the correct name! It don't cost anything hardly to cook a patch, so I thought I would see what I get!
Thanks Hank!
ACE

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Gents 

            I was asked what I used to get the color on the holster and money belt below by several Pards here in the forum, so this is my recipe, and what and how I make my Coffee and nut dyes, it may be a little different than others, but it works well for me, I hope this will be of some help to anyone that wants to try making and using these natural dyes.           


           MAKING COFFEE & NUT DYES = HOW TOO's

      Just so this doesn't get more complicated than it is.

  #1 , DARK ROAST COFFEE 1# CAN OR MORE, it's up to you, I make about 10 to 12 QT. with this, and I use a 20 qt. pot with lid, if you have a 20 qt. iron pot with lid , use it if you can lift it...
#2, use some IRON, SHAVINGS, IRON NAILS NOT PLATED OR GALVANIZED, JUST SIMPLE IRON NAILS, a lot of your finish nails are iron, if it will rust, or will stick to a magnet it has IRON IN IT, but you want to clean off any oil or grease it may have on it before you put it in your pot, steel wool is OK but you have to burn the oil out of it, which is a pain, LOTS OF SMOKE. WITHOUT IRON AS A MORDANT, YOU CAN'T ACHIEVE MUCH COLOR, IF AT ALL......( IMHO ) especially if you want a deeper darker color.
#3 with 10 to 12 QT. of water in your pot, bring it to a boil, then turn the flame down to a slow simmer, and let cook with the LID ON, for about three hours or so, let cool over night, and then do the same thing again the next day, if you want to cook it three or four days go ahead and do so, just make sure you keep your water up and don't let it boil dry, and leave the lid on through the whole process.
#4 AFTER THE COFFEE DYE HAS COOLED, you can pour the whole works, COFFEE/COFFEE GRINDS/IRON/DYE, in a thick plastic container, for what ever size you need for what you're going to dye, ( small and deep for holsters ) ( large and flat for belts )
#5 PUT YOUR LEATHER in the container, and leave it SUBMERGED for 24 hours or more if you want.
#6 REMOVE YOUR LEATHER  from the container, if it is a holster , you want to do your wet molding now, and let dry for 24 HOURS. if it is a belt, lay it out straight, so it will dry the way you want it.
#7 APPLY LEXOIL CONDITIONER, both sides of leather and let dry for a couple hours.
#8 APPLY NEATSFOOT OIL, a couple coats should do, but you can vary the color with the amount of oil you put on, LET DRY OVER NIGHT.
#9 THE FINISH is up to you, you can leave it the way it is now, or you can do like I did by using Gum Thraecanth at 40/60% water, and Bag Kote at 40/60% water, I use a spray bottle to apply this, just apply as you want and rub in, and when it looks the way you want , STOP... YOU can also finish your burnishing at this time.
#10 IF YOU WANT AN ANTIQUE LOOKING holster or belt, you will want to bend and twist your leather, to put some wrinkles in the leather, and give the leather that used look.
#11 AS A FINAL STEP, I apply a coat of Skidmores Leather Cream,
#12 NOW YOU WANT TO STORE YOUR DYE, I put the works in a empty cleaned CAT LITTER container, and I add a 1/2 cup of Rubbing alcohol to every QT. of dye, put the lid on tight and store.
#13 WHEN YOU WANT TO USE IT AGAIN, it will help to pour it all back in the pot and cook it again, the alcohol will burn off real quick, and you will have to add more at the end of your dying work, but this helps activate everything, you could even add more coffee at this time,
#14 JUST A NOTE, your dye should look like OLD MOTOR OIL, a dirty black, the Mexican one loop holster I did was dyed for 24 hours, and you can see the color of the coffee that came out when the leather was oiled, so have fun with this, you can create just about any shade or color you want by testing on scrap leather.
#15 When doing the NUT DYES, Get the nut as they have fallen off the tree, when the hulls are Green, you will get better color out of the Green hulls, you can use the other , but the green works best.  you want to remove nuts after cooking and before submerging your leather in the dye, you can hang the nuts up in a stocking and let air dry, or you can freeze them and use them again, also when cooking the nuts, I like to cook them for three days with the cooling in between, and when dyeing I leave my leather work submerged for five days, this longer time allows the color pigment to really get into the leather. Follow up the same as the Coffee dye.

       
                             I hope this will make it easier to follow how to make these dyes 

                   And a big thank you to Chuck Burrows for getting this natural dyes thread started


                                                   tEN wOLVES