Old time dyes: a How_to

[Nolan Sackett]

Here's some instructions for some of the old time dyes  I'm working with these days:
1) Black: VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon - these are original old formulas)
For giving color to the grain of leather there is no blacking that will at all compare with the well known vinegar black. This may be made in various ways. The simplest, and, without doubt, the best, is to procure shavings from an iron turner and cover them with pure cider vinegar; heat up and set aside for a week or two, then heat again and set in a cool place for two weeks; pour off the vinegar, allow it to stand for a few days, and draw off and cork up in bottles. This will keep for a long time, and, while producing a deep black on leather, will not stain the hands.
Another method is to cover iron scraps with sour beer, and allow them to stand for a month or more; then strain off the beer and bottle as before.
A third method is to boil sulphate of iron in vinegar; mix some brewer's yeast with beer and allow it to stand for twenty four hours, then skim off the yeast and add the vinegar.

Instead of iron shavings you can use steel wool. To use the steel wool burn off the oil first - I dip it in acetone and use a propane/blow torch and light it off in an old pan with a lid, just in case you need to put the flame out. Take all precautions and it will work fine. The only problem with steel wool is it often has copper and other metals in the "mix" which can sometimes add a greenish tint.

After the "dye" (actually it's a reagent) dries I then neutralize with a slurry of baking soda and room temp water, about a 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water. Then I let the leather dry until just damp and apply a light coat or two of oil (I generally use olive oil, Lexol, Conditioner, or Lexol non-greasy Neats Foot). When the "dye" first dries it may look bluish or grayish at first and sometimes a second coat is needed, but normally the neutralizing and oil will turn it black.

2) Brown: I use black walnut hulls (If they are not available locally - the fresh green hulls are best - you can buy them dried on line from various vendors - to find a vendor search for walnut dye, etc.) Put a pound or so of the crushed hulls in an old stocking and place in a pan of distilled water so that the water covers the walnut hulls about an inch. Cover it and simmer at a low boil for several hours and then let cool overnight - keep an eye on the water level. The next day boil again and let cool overnight. Again watch that the water level does not get too low, but you do want it to get fairly thick. Once it's cool drain off the liquid be sure to squeeze all of the liquid out of the bundled walnut hulls. Save the walnut hulls - hang them up to dry and you can use them a couple of times more. The liquid will go bad so either keep it frozen or add 3/4 of a cup of rubbing alcohol to a quart of the dye. This is the dye I used on the Slim Jim in the DVD. It will come out anywhere from a light brown/gray to a dark grayish brown before oiling (I use light olive oil a lot for oiling and then set it in the sun to darken) - the color will depend on the leather - every piece is different, how long you let it soak, and how strong the dye is.

I always do a test on a scrap of every new hide, I use only American tanned hides - mostly from Wickett & Craig. You can also mix the two dyes, which gave me a rusty/black on the pieces shown below.  I used a 60/40 mix of walnut to vinegaroon on the belt and a 75/25 on the holster:





And finally you can also use a thin wash of regular spirit dyes over any of the above to "adjust" the color..............

[Kaboom Andy]

As always you give us a lot of informations.........GREAT!! I'll try the Brown receipe.
The holsters looks like the one you are making for me.........

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Wow, great, Nolan. I've been looking for just this information for quite a while. I'll definitely get started on it. Many thanks for posting this. I'll make it a sticky for future pards to find easily.

Lessee if I have this right, now. Soak chunks of iron in cider vinegar and drink beer for a month or until you turn green.....

[will ghormley]

I keep a 55 gallon drum of rusty water in the back yard.  I've got soft metal straps suspended in it that are always rusting.  It's large enough I can color saddle skirts in it.  I have mine build up off the ground with bricks so I can light a fire under it in the winter.  If it has set for a while, I build a good fire under it anyway.  This gets the iron oxide movin' again for a good even coloration.
Will

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I like that idea, Will. Does that produce a good black? I know using the vinegar sure does.

[will ghormley]

You can vary the coloration by the length of time you leave it in.  You can get shades of brown to very dark black just fiddlin' with the amount of time you leave it in.  It soaks in faster on edges, cuts and stamps, so you can get something of an antiqued or used look.  There are two "up" sides to this method.  First, you can do large projects like saddles quickly.  Secondly, the rusty water doesn't mess with the pH balance of the leather as much as vinager does.  The down side is, maintainance and consistency.  You have to mess around with it quite a bit before you know exactly how to get what you want every time.

For smaller projects, where the lifetime of the leather isn't going to be an issue, the vinager method is probably easiest.  And, if you are treating it afterwords with extra virgin olive oil, you are helping address the pH balance issue.

Will

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I like the idea of getting the antique finish that way. I fiddled with some baking soda and water the other day and wound up burning the leather by doing it too much. A slight dunking did a nice antique to the edges, though.

[R.T. Rangebum]

I've got a question that fits right in here. When I tool a piece of leather I take special care to ensure that the piece is cased correctly and the tooling looks great. Sometimes ( most times ) after I dye the piece the tooling has lost some of its depth and crispness. Any ideas or tips?

RTR

[will ghormley]

Hey R.T., what kind of dye are ya' usin'?

Will

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I haven't encountered that problem. When I dye a tooled piece, I only apply the dye to the surface, although when I mold it, I soak it good without loosing any of the definition. Are your swivel knife cuts deep enough? Are the stamps making a good impression in the top grain? How are you dying the leather? Maybe some of the pards here will be able to shed more light on it.

[R.T. Rangebum]

Will G.  I'm using fielblings oil based dyes, I don't care for the way the alcohol based dyes dry the leather out. I also use olive oil. My problem really pops up when I'm doing a darker color, especially black. I wonder if when I apply the dye if I'm using too much at once and re-hydrating the leather to the point that the tooling is swelling? By the way... I would like to thank you for the great patterns I've used them many times I love the results.

Marshal Will W.  I'm sure my cuts are deep enough, my tooling looks great (IMHO). It comes out with that nice burneshed edge look. The problem is that after I dye a project it seems to wash out, the edges are just not as crisp as it was before I applied the dye. I mentioned earlier, I wonder if I'm trying to get the dye on too fast. maybe I need to apply the dye in lighter applications just more of them?

I really appreciate this forum and all the great help.

Thanks,
RTR

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've always done simpler designs when dying black because the detail gets lost in the darker shades. Perhaps the difference is that, rather than the design loosing its definition. When I tool browns and tans, I do more detail because the design shows better.

[Flinch Morningwood]

I looked for "pure" cider vineger atthe store and could only come up with cider vineger "reduced to 5% Acidity"...I used that so I am hoping it will work.

Is there a stronger version I should be using??

[will ghormley]

Hey R.T.,

I can't figger out what the problem would be, given what you have said.  If you have cased the leather right and the surface is dry enough to take the impression like clay, I can't think of anything that would mess with your impressions, (as long as it has been allowed to dry thouroughly before dying).  When I soak tooled leather in my rust tank, it comes out of the tank "looking" like it has lost some depth in the impression.  But when the leather has dried, it's as good as when I finished.  You are using Fiebing's oil dye, (which is the right choice for store brands), so that isn't the problem.  If you are buying an off-brand or out-of-country leather, that might be the problem.  But, given what you have said, I don't have a clue, and it only took me eight sentences to say it.

Will

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I looked for "pure" cider vineger atthe store and could only come up with cider vineger "reduced to 5% Acidity"...I used that so I am hoping it will work.

Is there a stronger version I should be using??

When I made mine, I used 5% white vinegar and it still worked just fine.

[R.T. Rangebum]

Will,

I think you just hit the nail on the head. I'm not waiting for the project to dry. I didn't know it would make a difference. I guess I get too excited to see the final outcome. I'll wait a day or two before dyeing. Thanks for the input.

RTR

[Flinch Morningwood]

Worked up cider and steel wool dye and it works great!...even after only a week of soaking the steel wool in vinegar.

Next question...does the baking soda kill the vinegar smell, does the oil help get rid of it or is it just a matter of letting it air out for a couple years?

[Marshal Will Wingam]

My solution only took a week or so, too. It has now turned almost solid black over time, but it still works fine.

I checked my samples and couldn't detect any vinegar smell. I submerged them in baking soda/water until they stopped bubbling. After dry, I put a very light coat of olive oil on them.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

For anyone wanting to get some black walnut hulls for making dye, Major 2 sent me a good link for some. It's powdered so it will probably need to be strained after you make it, but it is available for those who don't have access to walnut trees. I will probably order some and compare the color dye I get from it with what I make from the local English walnut hulls.

Order your black walnut hulls here

Many thanks, Major 2.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Gents

            I just found this post , and its just what I've been looking for. Let me start by thanking Nolan Sackett , Will Ghormley and Will Wingam, for all this great information, it seems like I'm just about able to find anything I want to know on this forum . I have a question about the walnut hulls for dying leather brown, the way I'm reading your post is, your suposed to submerge the leather in the walnut hull dye, is this the only way to do it, I was thinking that I could use a felt pad and rub or lightly dab the dye on, am I wrong in thinking this way, I thought I would have more control this way, I'm looking to get that brownesh-gray look, I think this has a real old look to it, I have a bum hand, so all of my work is stamped, and I don't want to loose the difinition that's in the leather, I read the other post and that seems to be a worry with this type of dying. Like RT was saying, and this is so true , you have to let your leather dry throughly before dying, and after dying let it dry throughly before putting any oil on. So if it's ok to rub or dab the dye on I would sure like to know. And one other thing , I would like to thank Will Ghormley for the paterns that you put out for us Pards, I have several of them and use them all the time when making my belts and holsters, this has opened up a hole new world to me, for this I thank you , and my Mentor Wayne Christenson, says howdy, he met you at the John Wayne 100 Birthday celebration, he's the owner of Standing Bears Leather , here in Reseda , California. He's the one that had the neat saddle bags.

                                                    Thanks again Pards 

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